NATION

PASSWORD

Indiana AG: LGBT Parents should be stripped of Rights

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Necroghastia
Senator
 
Posts: 4241
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:08 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:And what makes that choice any more reasonable than a two women marrying? Two men? And that's without getting into NB people, as well...

Easy and not so easy. Natural law in accordance with divine law and will.

What is natural law? What is divine law? How do you know divine will?
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63704
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:And what makes that choice any more reasonable than a two women marrying? Two men? And that's without getting into NB people, as well...

Easy and not so easy. Natural law in accordance with divine law and will.


I'm going to appeal to the Divine Supreme Court.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Necroghastia
Senator
 
Posts: 4241
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loben III wrote:
im going to have to stop you there.

what if the two men are married in accordance with civil law?

Then the marriage is legally valid. Not divinely. I want marriages to be both divinely and legally valid.

sounds like the divine's problem honestly
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loben III wrote:
im going to have to stop you there.

what if the two men are married in accordance with civil law?

Then the marriage is legally valid. Not divinely. I want marriages to be both divinely and legally valid.


legally valid from their standpoint is all that matters.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12536
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:10 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:And what makes that choice any more reasonable than a two women marrying? Two men? And that's without getting into NB people, as well...

Easy and not so easy. Natural law in accordance with divine law and will.

And what is natural law? Because, in the actual wild, in nature, homosexual behaviour happens.
Last edited by Celritannia on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:10 pm

Kannap wrote:
Loben III wrote:
im going to have to stop you there.

what if the two men are married in accordance with civil law?


That civil law is obviously incompatible and illegitimate in Sundiata's global Catholic theocracy.


i wouldnt worry about him, hes a minority in that Papal camp.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63704
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:10 pm

Loben III wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Then the marriage is legally valid. Not divinely. I want marriages to be both divinely and legally valid.


legally valid from their standpoint is all that matters.


My church also gives me the green light, which also matters to me and probably also the majority of LGBT people who are religious.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63704
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:11 pm

Loben III wrote:
Kannap wrote:
That civil law is obviously incompatible and illegitimate in Sundiata's global Catholic theocracy.


i wouldnt worry about him, hes a minority in that Papal camp.


Fortunately.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12536
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:11 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loben III wrote:
im going to have to stop you there.

what if the two men are married in accordance with civil law?

Then the marriage is legally valid. Not divinely. I want marriages to be both divinely and legally valid.


Really, that's not up to you to decide.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7105
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:15 pm

Kannap wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Easy and not so easy. Natural law in accordance with divine law and will.


I'm going to appeal to the Divine Supreme Court.

The closest thing I can think of is the magesterium of the church. You're free to make your case to a bishop to ensure that your concern is likely to be raised before the Pope and the next ecumenical council of the church.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7105
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:16 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Then the marriage is legally valid. Not divinely. I want marriages to be both divinely and legally valid.


Really, that's not up to you to decide.

I know, I don't decide.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63704
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:17 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kannap wrote:
I'm going to appeal to the Divine Supreme Court.

The closest thing I can think of is the magesterium of the church. You're free to make your case to a bishop to ensure that your concern is likely to be raised before the Pope and the next ecumenical council of the church.


I said the Divine Supreme Court, not your silly mortal leadership. You guys can pretend to play God all you want, but I don't worship you or your Bishops or your silly hat wearing Pope.
24 years old, gay asexual, male Presbyterian, North Carolinian. Pumpkin Spice everything.
TET's resident ostrich
Political Party: Not affiliated/Independent
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
Luna Amore wrote:note to self, insert clever reference to Kannap
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
RYM || Political test results
.::The List of National Sports::.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36590
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:18 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Really, that's not up to you to decide.

I know, I don't decide.

You do decide if you want to implement it legally, despite the harm it does. You still have not acknowledged the harm your support for this AG would do to children.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12536
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:18 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Really, that's not up to you to decide.

I know, I don't decide.


Then stop wanting to do it, stop saying you want to do it.
Let people live their lives and be happy, instead of trying to establish this hypothetical Authoritarian Catholic Theocracy/Fascist state.

You say you don't want to hurt people, but then you mention how you will hurt people. It's a double standard, an oxymoron, and hypocritical of you to even say.
Last edited by Celritannia on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 773
Founded: Oct 27, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:19 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I know, I don't decide.


Then stop wanting to do it, stop saying you want to do it.
Let people live their lives and be happy, instead of trying to establish this hypothetical Authoritarian Catholic Theocracy/Fascist state.

You say you don't want to hurt people, but then you mention how you will hurt people. It's a double standard.

Bingo. We have a winner.
I'm a master at arguing right after I hit "submit"

Veni, Vidi, Vici. I came, I saw, I conquered.

User avatar
The Imarian Monarchy
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Jan 22, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Imarian Monarchy » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:21 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I know, I don't decide.


Then stop wanting to do it, stop saying you want to do it.
Let people live their lives and be happy, instead of trying to establish this hypothetical Authoritarian Catholic Theocracy/Fascist state.

You say you don't want to hurt people, but then you mention how you will hurt people. It's a double standard.


Celrit, I think you meant hypocrisy there, not a double standard :p

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7105
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:22 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Easy and not so easy. Natural law in accordance with divine law and will.

And what is natural law? Because, in the actual wild, in nature, homosexual behaviour happens.
The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12536
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:23 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:And what is natural law? Because, in the actual wild, in nature, homosexual behaviour happens.
The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.


Your morals are not the only morals that exist. Confucianism is older than yours.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 36590
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:26 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:And what is natural law? Because, in the actual wild, in nature, homosexual behaviour happens.
The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.

Like not harming children by forcing them to be parented by a broken marriage you forced on them since their only alternative was celibacy? How about the moral imperative not to harm children by taking away their loving parents as described by the AG. How about the moral imperative that doesn't harm a loving couple who is unable to conceive, since lack of children is something that can easily break apart a couple. It truly is astonishing how much harm your morals would perpetuate.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7105
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:29 pm

Celritannia wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.


Your morals are not the only morals that exist. Confucianism is older than yours.

No. Confucianism is dharmic in origin, like Hinduism, like Buddhism. It doesn't make logical sense for God to operate in the manner described by dharmic religions and teachings for a variety of reasons. These reasons are outlined by Aquinas as he describes the qualities necessary to being and goodness.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Necroghastia
Senator
 
Posts: 4241
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:31 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Your morals are not the only morals that exist. Confucianism is older than yours.

No. Confucianism is dharmic in origin, like Hinduism, like Buddhism. It doesn't make logical sense for God to operate in the manner described by dharmic religions and teachings for a variety of reasons. These reasons are outlined by Aquinas as he describes the qualities necessary to being and goodness.

You wanna talk what doesn't make sense for a creator that is supposed to be omnibenevolent? Thinking cishet marriages are the only valid ones.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:31 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:And what is natural law? Because, in the actual wild, in nature, homosexual behaviour happens.
The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.


Is it considered gospel?
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Sundiata
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7105
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:34 pm

Loben III wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The moral and ethical imperative that humans have in nature that comes from God. The best definition of this, in my opinion, comes from Aquinas' Summa Theologae.


Is it considered gospel?

No, it's considered tradition. Gospel would be scripture.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Loben III
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:37 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loben III wrote:
Is it considered gospel?

No, it's considered tradition. Gospel would be scripture.


So why are you bent on forcing non Catholics to adhere to tradition.
Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

User avatar
Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12536
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:38 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Your morals are not the only morals that exist. Confucianism is older than yours.

No. Confucianism is dharmic in origin, like Hinduism, like Buddhism. It doesn't make logical sense for God to operate in the manner described by dharmic religions and teachings for a variety of reasons. These reasons are outlined by Aquinas as he describes the qualities necessary to being and goodness.


That's just your opinion.
People can hold a different belief and still think their religion or belief is more important than yours.
But because you want to make certain people unhappy, it can be discredited in creating goodness.

My DeviantArt
Obey
When you annoy a Celritannian
U W0T M8?
Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman.
Atheist, Environmentalist, Pansexual, Left-Libertarian.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alezian Union, Diarcesia, Greater Cosmicium, Herzpunkt, Nakena, Neanderthaland, Shrillland, The Disorder, Uiiop, Wayneactia, Willtime

Advertisement

Remove ads