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by Kungsu » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:44 am
by Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:13 am
Kungsu wrote:My issue with all of this is that people keep trying to superimpose their religious beliefs onto legislation. Pretty much any anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment comes from some religious conviction or another. The government should be kept secular. How would you like it if a different religion started to impose laws that suppressed your rights as a [insert denomination here]? (i.e. If you are a Christian and the government enacts Sharia law and makes it illegal to be non-Muslim.) The government's job is to allow people to live how they want in manner that is relatively safe for themselves and others, not legislate morals. That's what religion is for.
by Neutraligon » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:16 am
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:51 am
by San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:53 am
Turelisa- wrote:Neutraligon wrote:From your comments in this thread, only a few limited forms of it.
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
by Vassenor » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:53 am
Turelisa- wrote:Neutraligon wrote:From your comments in this thread, only a few limited forms of it.
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
by Necroghastia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:56 am
Turelisa- wrote:Neutraligon wrote:From your comments in this thread, only a few limited forms of it.
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
by Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:12 am
so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:13 am
Vassenor wrote:Turelisa- wrote:
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
Apparently advocating people be stripped of their rights is just "moral opposition".
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:15 am
Esalia wrote:Turelisa- wrote:
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality,
Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.
This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.
by San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:17 am
Turelisa- wrote:Esalia wrote:
Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.
This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.
Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.
by Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:19 am
San Lumen wrote:Turelisa- wrote:
Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.
No it hasn't. Im still at a loss to understand why two men or woman being in love and getting married and possibly adopting children is such a big deal to people. How does it affect you in any way?
by Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:19 am
Turelisa- wrote:Esalia wrote:
Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.
This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.
Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.
Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respet. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:19 am
San Lumen wrote:Turelisa- wrote:
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.
and what's morally wrong about being gay? How does two men or woman getting married and possibly adopting children harm you in any way?
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:28 am
Esalia wrote:Turelisa- wrote:
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.
Yes. And?
What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respet. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.
Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.
by Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:29 am
San Lumen wrote:and what's morally wrong about being gay?
by Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:35 am
by Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:38 am
A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.
by Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:39 am
by Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:49 am
Esalia wrote:I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.
by San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:54 am
Sundiata wrote:San Lumen wrote:and what's morally wrong about being gay?
It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.
Thank you.
by Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:56 am
Sundiata wrote:Esalia wrote:I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.
No man, no.
I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.
We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.
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