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Indiana AG: LGBT Parents should be stripped of Rights

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Esalia
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
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Postby Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:19 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Esalia wrote:
Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.

This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.



Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.


What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.


Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"

Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respet. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.


Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.
Last edited by Esalia on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
Formerly Estanglia. Leftie ready to establish Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space CommunismTM under our Marxist Lord Soros.

Nine times out of ten, someone talking about any non-monolithic group as a homogenous, united entity is using them as a boogeyman.

Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, pro-choice, social democracy
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: Pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

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Turelisa-
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:19 am

San Lumen wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.

and what's morally wrong about being gay? How does two men or woman getting married and possibly adopting children harm you in any way?


I've already outlined my opinions earlier in the thread.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:22 am

Turelisa- wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and what's morally wrong about being gay? How does two men or woman getting married and possibly adopting children harm you in any way?


I've already outlined my opinions earlier in the thread.

I think that it's important to distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual acts, thank you.
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Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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Turelisa-
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:28 am

Esalia wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being. It is literally skin deep.


Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"

Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respet. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.


Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.


You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.
Last edited by Turelisa- on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:29 am

San Lumen wrote:and what's morally wrong about being gay?

It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.
Last edited by Sundiata on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:30 am

Sundiata wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
I've already outlined my opinions earlier in the thread.

I think that it's important to distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual acts, thank you.


Homosexuality is sexual acts. Desires, thoughts and ideations have no objective reality.

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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:33 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think that it's important to distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual acts, thank you.


Homosexuality is sexual acts. Desires, thoughts and ideations have no objective reality.

Ok and why is it any of your business? I don’t see how it affects you in any way.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:35 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think that it's important to distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual acts, thank you.


Homosexuality is sexual acts. Desires, thoughts and ideations have no objective reality.

Homosexuality is same-sex attraction. Homosexual acts are a separate subject. Homosexual marriage is likewise a separate subject.

To conflate all of these concerns functionally alienates people. It isn't a choice to be attracted to someone of the same sex but that is certainly homosexuality. We have a moral obligation to affirm that homosexuality is not a choice.
Last edited by Sundiata on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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Esalia
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:38 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Esalia wrote:
Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"



Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.


You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.


Aside that the racism comparison isn't necessarily "racism is as bad as homophobia" but "a word that covers hatred against a group will cover hatred against that group", I see functionally little difference between people who hate gay people and people with "moral opposition" to homosexuality.

Both lead to the same end result, the oppression of gay people. That those "morally opposed" to homosexuality wrap their desire to oppress in something other than open hatred changes nothing to me, just as the hypothetical person "morally opposed" to black people might wrap their desire to oppress black people in something other than open hatred.

So taking this;
A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.


I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.
Formerly Estanglia. Leftie ready to establish Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space CommunismTM under our Marxist Lord Soros.

Nine times out of ten, someone talking about any non-monolithic group as a homogenous, united entity is using them as a boogeyman.

Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, pro-choice, social democracy
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: Pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

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Esalia
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esalia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:39 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think that it's important to distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual acts, thank you.


Homosexuality is sexual acts. Desires, thoughts and ideations have no objective reality.


Homosexuality is the attraction, not the act. One can be gay and never engage in same-sex sex, and one can be something other than gay and engage in same-sex sex.
Last edited by Esalia on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Formerly Estanglia. Leftie ready to establish Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space CommunismTM under our Marxist Lord Soros.

Nine times out of ten, someone talking about any non-monolithic group as a homogenous, united entity is using them as a boogeyman.

Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, pro-choice, social democracy
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: Pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:49 am

Esalia wrote:I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.

No man, no.

I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.

We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.
Last edited by Sundiata on Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:54 am

Sundiata wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and what's morally wrong about being gay?

It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:56 am

Sundiata wrote:
Esalia wrote:I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.

No man, no.

I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.

We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.


I find it ironic there are homosexuals who, on one hand, preach disingenuously about love and tolerance and their demand for it, and on the other, subject people who refuse to endorse their position with hatred.

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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:59 am

San Lumen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?


It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

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Necroghastia
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Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:00 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Sundiata wrote:No man, no.

I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.

We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.


I find it ironic there are homosexuals who, on one hand, preach disingenuously about love and tolerance and their demand for it, and on the other, subject people who refuse to endorse their position with hatred.

Congratulations! You have discovered the paradox of tolerance!
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:02 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Esalia wrote:
Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.

This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.



Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.


What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being.

Just like being gay.
Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respect. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.

Bullshit. What's respectful in the slightest about your "moral opposition?"
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Johto-
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Postby Johto- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:05 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Esalia wrote:
Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"



Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.


You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.
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Turelisa-
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Founded: Sep 25, 2020
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Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:09 am

Johto- wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.


Pride is sin.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:18 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Johto- wrote:I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.


Pride is sin.

Yes. Being LGBT isn't, though. Nor is being Christian.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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Johto-
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Johto- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:18 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Johto- wrote:I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.


Pride is sin.

All sins, past, present, and future, have been forgiven by God when he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross.

Also, the 7 Deadly Sins are made up Catholic bullshit.
Last edited by Johto- on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF JOHTO
Yes, that Johto. From the Pokémon Games.
(Ho-Oh used Sacred Fire on NS Stats! It's super effective! Opponent NS Stats fainted!)
Goldenrod News Central! - As BMEN protests intensify, Alola becomes the first region to ban Mega Evolution; Ditto - are they actually natural? A study by Tracey K. Juniper; Opinion: Alola banning Mega Evolution is a huge step for Pokémon rights
Pokemon of the Month - Gyarados - What Pokémon should be Pokémon of the Month for May, 2021? (APRIL ALREADY CHOSEN)

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:19 am

Turelisa- wrote:
San Lumen wrote:So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?


It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 am

Turelisa- wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:From your comments in this thread, only a few limited forms of it.


Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.

No it hasn't.

Turelisa- wrote:I find it ironic there are homosexuals who, on one hand, preach disingenuously about love and tolerance and their demand for it, and on the other, subject people who refuse to endorse their position with hatred.

The hatred more often than not goes the other way tbh...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sundiata » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?

Not completely alone, no. Stop that.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

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Turelisa-
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Posts: 178
Founded: Sep 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Turelisa- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:34 am

San Lumen wrote:
Turelisa- wrote:
It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?


There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 33727
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:35 am

Turelisa- wrote:
San Lumen wrote:And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?


There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

Clicked the link, laughed at it, immediately closed it. Want to try again buddy?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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