US Court Rules First Amendment Protects Conversion Therapy

[Neutraligon]

Notably, this case isn't about such torture - it's entirely about speech therapy/counseling.

Here's the case:

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/ap ... 11-20.html

In that case then yes just don't be a dickhead and ask your kid if he wants to do it.

Unfortunately those people who send their child to conversion therapy tend to be dickheads who do not ask if their child wants it. There is a reason it was made illegal for minors, and that is because more often then not minors don't choose to have the "therapy", parents force them into it.

[Genivaria]

I mean, it's not like it's forcing conversion therapy

If an adult wants to submit themselves to torture for some pointless and fruitless endeavor to change their sexuality than not only is it not my place to stop them but it would be fruitless to try.
When you try to force this upon children it is another matter entirely.

[Esalia]

Conversion therapy on minors is practically forced.

That is illegal. But on the side of the parents. Not the actual therapy

Should be on both.

[Romextly]

I mean, it's not like it's forcing conversion therapy

If an adult wants to submit themselves to torture for some pointless and fruitless endeavor to change their sexuality than not only is it not my place to stop them but it would be fruitless to try.
When you try to force this upon children it is another matter entirely.

AS I stated, that is on the Parents

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Only if it's against the child's wishes, it literally is forcing conversion therapy.

As I stated, that is the fault on the parents

The fault is also on practitioners who assist the parents in their goal. Any ethical doctor or therapist would tell the parents up front that they are not going to do anything to try to change their child's sexual orientation or gender identity.

[Romextly]

As I stated, that is the fault on the parents

The fault is also on practitioners who assist the parents in their goal. Any ethical doctor or therapist would tell the parents up front that they are not going to do anything to try to change their child's sexual orientation or gender identity.

True. If they are going to do it, then be clear. But this thread is about is the it legal or illegal and I think it's legal

[Deacarsia]

This is good.

[Esalia]

If an adult wants to submit themselves to torture for some pointless and fruitless endeavor to change their sexuality than not only is it not my place to stop them but it would be fruitless to try.
When you try to force this upon children it is another matter entirely.

AS I stated, that is on the Parents

It's also on the people engaging in the conversion therapy of minors, not just the parents forcing the kids into it.

They're not innocent at all, since they're the ones carrying it out.

[Neutraligon]

If an adult wants to submit themselves to torture for some pointless and fruitless endeavor to change their sexuality than not only is it not my place to stop them but it would be fruitless to try.
When you try to force this upon children it is another matter entirely.

AS I stated, that is on the Parents

And on the people who advertise and provide such "services." There is such a thing as ethics for most professions, and that definitely includes psychologist and psychiatrists.

[Romextly]

AS I stated, that is on the Parents

And on the people who advertise and provide such "services." There is such a thing as ethics for most professions, and that definitely includes psychologist and psychiatrists.

As I stated before, they should be clear on what they are doing, or else they are doing fraud and should be tried as a normal person who misinforms people of their product

[Neutraligon]

The fault is also on practitioners who assist the parents in their goal. Any ethical doctor or therapist would tell the parents up front that they are not going to do anything to try to change their child's sexual orientation or gender identity.

True. If they are going to do it, then be clear. But this thread is about is the it legal or illegal and I think it's legal

You think it should be legal to force a child into a situation where they will be caused long lasting psychological harm?

[Romextly]

True. If they are going to do it, then be clear. But this thread is about is the it legal or illegal and I think it's legal

You think it should be legal to force a child into a situation where they will be caused long lasting psychological harm?

I meant it should be legal if the kid agrees to it.

[Necroghastia]

This is good.

Why? Malpractice and child abuse is good? Since when?

[Anatoliyanskiy]

I have one word for this: sh*t. I-I can't even. The US is getting more illiberal every day. *sigh* This is just sad.

[Page]

The fault is also on practitioners who assist the parents in their goal. Any ethical doctor or therapist would tell the parents up front that they are not going to do anything to try to change their child's sexual orientation or gender identity.

True. If they are going to do it, then be clear. But this thread is about is the it legal or illegal and I think it's legal

The First Amendment has nothing to do with abuse and manipulation. You can stand on a soap box in the park every day and preach about whatever you want but if you use words to emotionally destroy a child, that isn't free speech.

[Neutraligon]

And on the people who advertise and provide such "services." There is such a thing as ethics for most professions, and that definitely includes psychologist and psychiatrists.

As I stated before, they should be clear on what they are doing, or else they are doing fraud and should be tried as a normal person who misinforms people of their product

They are clear, it is just that they do not need to talk about the issues that such...therapy... creates, first amendment and all that.

[Genivaria]

It should be noted that even more recent organized Christian advocates of this torture Exodus International abandoned support for this 'practice' back in 2012 and formally apologized for the harm their message had done.

Whatever you think about the 'immorality' of homosexuality due to whatever religious views you may have the fact remains that sexuality does not seem to be any kind of choice, and any attempts to forcibly change one's sexuality is at best misguided and at worst yes a form of torture.

[Romextly]

True. If they are going to do it, then be clear. But this thread is about is the it legal or illegal and I think it's legal

The First Amendment has nothing to do with abuse and manipulation. You can stand on a soap box in the park every day and preach about whatever you want but if you use words to emotionally destroy a child, that isn't free speech.

As I responded to Neutraligon, I states they should be tried as others who misinforms

[Esalia]

You think it should be legal to force a child into a situation where they will be caused long lasting psychological harm?

I meant it should be legal if the kid agrees to it.

Minors generally can't consent.

[Page]

You think it should be legal to force a child into a situation where they will be caused long lasting psychological harm?

I meant it should be legal if the kid agrees to it.

Do you think it should be legal for a kid to be a prostitute if they agree to it?

[Necroghastia]

So you support torturing kids in an ineffective attempt to force them to express a certain sexuality or gender identity?

Notably, this case isn't about such torture - it's entirely about speech therapy/counseling.

Here's the case:

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/ap ... 11-20.html

Just because they aren't being physically tortured doesn't mean they aren't being psychologically/emotionally tortured.

[Romextly]

I meant it should be legal if the kid agrees to it.

Minors generally can't consent.

Then the government should protect the kids decision

[Disgraces]

How about if we had gay conversion therapy, in which we convince straight people to become gay through these same verbal methods. Would this sit well with you?

Why would anyone want to become gay?

[Neutraligon]

You think it should be legal to force a child into a situation where they will be caused long lasting psychological harm?

I meant it should be legal if the kid agrees to it.

A minor can very easily be coerced by their parents into getting "treatment." There is a reason it is much harder to perform experiments on kids and conversion therapy is not supported by any of the major psychological groups in the country.

[Tsaivao]

And on the people who advertise and provide such "services." There is such a thing as ethics for most professions, and that definitely includes psychologist and psychiatrists.

As I stated before, they should be clear on what they are doing, or else they are doing fraud and should be tried as a normal person who misinforms people of their product

So by this logic, if I advertise my services as a programmer and I promise to make a computer "run 10% more efficiently" and then I accomplish this by deleting the majority of the data on the hard-drive, then I'm not doing something unethical? Because I never explicitly lied, a computer will run faster if you give it more data to work with