US Court Rules First Amendment Protects Conversion Therapy

[Parxland]

What's ASD? I'm diagnosed with being dark and edgy anti-hero. My parents were killed in an alleyway by a mugger and I compensate for that trauma in adulthood by dressing up as a humanoid bat and going out at night to beat up random strangers.

Bruce, wrong cave.

This isn't one of my many adoring fan sites? Oh shi-

*dives through a side window and exits thread*

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Bruce, wrong cave.

This isn't one of my many adoring fan sites? Oh shi-

*dives through a side window and exits thread*

Send my regards to Bane.

[Geneviev]

That's all happening before we fix education. That is essential to actually forcing it to die naturally. It will make it harder to reject knowledge, because they know where the knowledge comes from and know how to judge whether it's true.

If it were that easy, don’t you think we wouldn’t be experiencing the US election fuckery?

Mind you, education is indeed key, but it alone won’t force the belief in conversion therapy to die naturally. It needs something more forceful, like an outright ban, to protect children.

It is that easy, we just aren't doing it for reasons that are probably irrelevant to this thread. More forceful measures to protect children are the best call because it would take generations for education to work, but it would work.

[Bluepillar]

That's all happening before we fix education. That is essential to actually forcing it to die naturally. It will make it harder to reject knowledge, because they know where the knowledge comes from and know how to judge whether it's true.

If it were that easy, don’t you think we wouldn’t be experiencing the US election fuckery?

Mind you, education is indeed key, but it alone won’t force the belief in conversion therapy to die naturally. It needs something more forceful, like an outright ban, to protect children.

I can think of things that are a more forceful, like the much needed reduction of institutional religious authority over minors (especially when it allows you to do things to/with children that a secular person might not be able to), but I think a ban is a nice approach too

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If it were that easy, don’t you think we wouldn’t be experiencing the US election fuckery?

Mind you, education is indeed key, but it alone won’t force the belief in conversion therapy to die naturally. It needs something more forceful, like an outright ban, to protect children.

It is that easy, we just aren't doing it for reasons that are probably irrelevant to this thread. More forceful measures to protect children are the best call because it would take generations for education to work, but it would work.

If it were that easy, I think the practice wouldn’t be a problem anymore and yet, it is. The information is out there, clearly stated by both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Organization. But certain therapists and churches still engage in conversion therapy.

Allow me to introduce you to Core Issues Trust, a UK based group that believes in the practice. A ban on it protecting minors along with education is the best bet.

[Geneviev]

It is that easy, we just aren't doing it for reasons that are probably irrelevant to this thread. More forceful measures to protect children are the best call because it would take generations for education to work, but it would work.

If it were that easy, I think the practice wouldn’t be a problem anymore and yet, it is. The information is out there, clearly stated by both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Organization. But certain therapists and churches still engage in conversion therapy.

Allow me to introduce you to Core Issues Trust, a UK based group that believes in the practice. A ban on it protecting minors along with education is the best bet.

Since we haven't even attempted the solution that I see, it definitely would still be a problem even if it is that easy. Information being available just isn't enough. People need to understand it and understand where it came from as well, because then they'd see the facts instead of imagining an attack on their "freedom".

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If it were that easy, don’t you think we wouldn’t be experiencing the US election fuckery?

Mind you, education is indeed key, but it alone won’t force the belief in conversion therapy to die naturally. It needs something more forceful, like an outright ban, to protect children.

I can think of things that are a more forceful, like the much needed reduction of institutional religious authority over minors (especially when it allows you to do things to/with children that a secular person might not be able to), but I think a ban is a nice approach too

That is problematic, sure, but regarding conversion therapy for minors, a ban is probably a good bet.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If it were that easy, I think the practice wouldn’t be a problem anymore and yet, it is. The information is out there, clearly stated by both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Organization. But certain therapists and churches still engage in conversion therapy.

Allow me to introduce you to Core Issues Trust, a UK based group that believes in the practice. A ban on it protecting minors along with education is the best bet.

Since we haven't even attempted the solution that I see, it definitely would still be a problem even if it is that easy. Information being available just isn't enough. People need to understand it and understand where it came from as well, because then they'd see the facts instead of imagining an attack on their "freedom".

For starters, the study and observation by mental health experts, of conversion camps and what goes on would be ideal. Because I’m aware that so far all we have is anecdotal evidence. The problem here is that this can subject children to abuse for the mere purpose of a study. It’s difficult and the implications troubling.

[Geneviev]

Since we haven't even attempted the solution that I see, it definitely would still be a problem even if it is that easy. Information being available just isn't enough. People need to understand it and understand where it came from as well, because then they'd see the facts instead of imagining an attack on their "freedom".

For starters, the study and observation by mental health experts, of conversion camps and what goes on would be ideal. Because I’m aware that so far all we have is anecdotal evidence. The problem here is that this can subject children to abuse for the mere purpose of a study. It’s difficult and the implications troubling.

I don't even know if it's legal. But we can at least compare the outcomes of children who were subjected to it once and got out, and that would be more ethical, maybe. Together with real support and counseling.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

For starters, the study and observation by mental health experts, of conversion camps and what goes on would be ideal. Because I’m aware that so far all we have is anecdotal evidence. The problem here is that this can subject children to abuse for the mere purpose of a study. It’s difficult and the implications troubling.

I don't even know if it's legal. But we can at least compare the outcomes of children who were subjected to it once and got out, and that would be more ethical, maybe. Together with real support and counseling.

But is it medically ethical? Therein lies the challenge.

And before someone comes at me with “don’t doubt victims”, I don’t. But in order to enact a ban on conversion therapy, we’ll need far more evidence than just the testimonials of the people who were subjected to it.

[Geneviev]

I don't even know if it's legal. But we can at least compare the outcomes of children who were subjected to it once and got out, and that would be more ethical, maybe. Together with real support and counseling.

But is it medically ethical? Therein lies the challenge.

And before someone comes at me with “don’t doubt victims”, I don’t. But in order to enact a ban on conversion therapy, we’ll need far more evidence than just the testimonials of the people who were subjected to it.

Admittedly, I didn't read any of these studies, but it does look like there is research, albeit limited.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

But is it medically ethical? Therein lies the challenge.

And before someone comes at me with “don’t doubt victims”, I don’t. But in order to enact a ban on conversion therapy, we’ll need far more evidence than just the testimonials of the people who were subjected to it.

Admittedly, I didn't read any of these studies, but it does look like there is research, albeit limited.

Very limited, yes. Several pages ago I posted a statement from the American Psychiatric Association that outlined that, albeit shortly.

[Saiwania]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

[Bluepillar]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

I think I might have to meet with a few extra men to compensate for your social conservatism. Gotta balance the scales.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending the next day. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

Mental healthcare professionals stopped pathologizing homosexuality. Simple. Read this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4695779/

I’m sure you’ll disagree but it’s you so whatever.

[Kowani]

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

I think I might have to meet with a few extra men to compensate for your social conservatism. Gotta balance the scales.

he's literally a nazi

don't worry about him

[Nobel Hobos 2]

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

Last stand of the hippies.

They were tired of trying to change the world with Love. So they started going after some of the institutions of Hate.

[Page]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

I know, right? Society used to be in agreement that any woman who challenged the authority of her husband should be burned as a witch until ye olde cultural Marxists came along and brainwashed everyone into thinking that burning women alive is wrong.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

George Soros forced the gays into society, you see.

/s

[San Lumen]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

I suggest you watch the film Boy Erased before you endorse the torture that is conversion therapy. I know two people who were subjected to it.

[Page]

What happened in 1973 that didn't happen before that point? This is what I don't understand.

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending. Its very galling how permissive our society becomes over the long run when this doesn't have to be the case or perhaps shouldn't.

I suggest you watch the film Boy Erased before you endorse the torture that is conversion therapy. I know two people who were subjected to it.

I think he would prefer to rewatch Birth of a Nation and the first half only of American History X.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending.

Being a social conservative must be a lifetime of suffering, you poor dears. Society keeps changing, and acting like it hasn't gets you in trouble. Then one day your grand-daughter gets a tattoo, your own son tells you to can it about her "cute little tattoo" and you can't take it any more ...

[Page]

We social conservatives have broad agreement on what is right or wrong one day, and because of Liberal Progressives or whatever other nefarious force in society there happens to be, it suddenly changes the next day to say that what is wrong is suddenly right or cool/trending.

Being a social conservative must be a lifetime of suffering, you poor dears. Society keeps changing, and acting like it hasn't gets you in trouble. Then one day your grand-daughter gets a tattoo, your own son tells you to can it about her "cute little tattoo" and you can't take it any more ...

Not being able to one day have a kid come home with a tattoo and just say "cool, what's your next one gonna be?" is my sole regret about being childfree.

Still really worth it though. I mean I could just go to IHOP at 3AM if I want. Well, I can't cause I'm Germany but when I lived in America I could do that. No 3AM chocolate chip pancakes when you got kids.

[Greed and Death]

Being a social conservative must be a lifetime of suffering, you poor dears. Society keeps changing, and acting like it hasn't gets you in trouble. Then one day your grand-daughter gets a tattoo, your own son tells you to can it about her "cute little tattoo" and you can't take it any more ...

Not being able to one day have a kid come home with a tattoo and just say "cool, what's your next one gonna be?" is my sole regret about being childfree.

Still really worth it though. I mean I could just go to IHOP at 3AM if I want. Well, I can't cause I'm Germany but when I lived in America I could do that. No 3AM chocolate chip pancakes when you got kids.

The kid only stopped me for like the first 6 months after that he stayed asleep while I went and got pancakes at 3 am.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

I suggest you watch the film Boy Erased before you endorse the torture that is conversion therapy. I know two people who were subjected to it.

I think he would prefer to rewatch Birth of a Nation and the first half only of American History X.

Or Triumph of the Will.