US Court Rules First Amendment Protects Conversion Therapy

[Alcala-Cordel]

If its the US, there is still a lot I can't do. It is not like any camp I construct can just be anything I want it to be. With that said, I'm highly impressed with what the Soviet Union did with their youth. The ideology has to be changed, but asides from that- the Soviets accomplished an ideal summer program that really instilled ideological purity, skills training, and more. The example organization I'm referring to is the Vladimir Lenin All-Union Pioneer Organization which existed from 1922 until 1991. The Little Octobrists, Young Pioneers, and Komsomol progression seems to be quite a good model on paper. It can perhaps be converted into learning every facet of the GOP ideology and platform.

We have to remember that the parents are the customers and the aim is to try delivering what they'd want. Whoever comes in has to come out better than before at least on some basis.

how dare you endorse conversion therapy and say you want to start your own. I know two people who were subjected to that torture. Shame on you.

Maybe if you vote hard enough you can stop the torture

Seriously though, "conversion therapy" is a horrible practice and it must be stopped.

Saiwania's views are pretty grotesque, and I think most people agree with that.

Yes they are. Even from a far-right perspective.

Nazism's got a reputation for being a monstrous ideology for a reason, but I think you give the far right too much credit in the moral department if you think many of them would be bothered.

[Nakena]

I wonder if conversion camps in the US are still a thing. Read some pretty horrid stuff about it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I wonder if conversion camps in the US are still a thing. Read some pretty horrid stuff about it.

I’ve been told certain churches hold them, although they don’t call them conversion camps.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I wonder if conversion camps in the US are still a thing. Read some pretty horrid stuff about it.

Like Nanatsu said, they've been renamed but they're still around.

[Geneviev]

I fundamentally support any child that wants professional help and advice deciding something critical in their development like their gender or orientation. Just take the religion out of it and I'd be fine with 'conversion therapy' as a form of help, and yes I know it's a procedure for teaching your kid how to be straight. I don't think that's wrong. It's their right or the right of their parents/guardian to get that, so long as there's no abuse.

Likewise, IDK why there isn't professional therapy for people that want to help teach their children how to be a functioning LGBT person or just general education about other non-binary genders and sexual orientations. It might help with promoting tolerance and expanding people's horizons. God knows Americans need all the help we can get nowadays to be more empathetic.

Children can't consent to this sort of thing. I think there is a bit of a grey area when they're still minors but nearly adults and can make their own decisions, but even then, it's better to protect the most vulnerable people from abuse than to let them "choose" it for themselves.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I fundamentally support any child that wants professional help and advice deciding something critical in their development like their gender or orientation. Just take the religion out of it and I'd be fine with 'conversion therapy' as a form of help, and yes I know it's a procedure for teaching your kid how to be straight. I don't think that's wrong. It's their right or the right of their parents/guardian to get that, so long as there's no abuse.

Likewise, IDK why there isn't professional therapy for people that want to help teach their children how to be a functioning LGBT person or just general education about other non-binary genders and sexual orientations. It might help with promoting tolerance and expanding people's horizons. God knows Americans need all the help we can get nowadays to be more empathetic.

Children can't consent to this sort of thing. I think there is a bit of a grey area when they're still minors but nearly adults and can make their own decisions, but even then, it's better to protect the most vulnerable people from abuse than to let them "choose" it for themselves.

When it comes to adults who say they’re confused, therapy should be given in an effort for that person to come to their own conclusions. Not to mold them into X or Y. Unless that’s what they ask for, as adults are final arbiters of their own healthcare. In terms of those who come right out and identify as LGBTQ, therapy should be offered in an identity reaffirmation capacity. At least that’s what I think.

When it comes to minors however, they should definitely be protected from abuse and according to testimonies (and yes, I’m aware they’re anecdotal), these conversion camps are purported to be abusive.

[Geneviev]

Children can't consent to this sort of thing. I think there is a bit of a grey area when they're still minors but nearly adults and can make their own decisions, but even then, it's better to protect the most vulnerable people from abuse than to let them "choose" it for themselves.

When it comes to adults who say they’re confused, therapy should be given in an effort for that person to come to their own conclusions. Not to mold them into X or Y. Unless that’s what they ask for, as adults are final arbiters of their own healthcare. In terms of those who come right out and identify as LGBTQ, therapy should be offered in an identity reaffirmation capacity. At least that’s what I think.

When it comes to minors however, they should definitely be protected from abuse and according to testimonies (and yes, I’m aware they’re anecdotal), these conversion camps are purported to be abusive.

The fact that psychologists have called them abusive should be enough to say that minors should be protected from them. Just the effect on suicide rates is terrifying enough.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When it comes to adults who say they’re confused, therapy should be given in an effort for that person to come to their own conclusions. Not to mold them into X or Y. Unless that’s what they ask for, as adults are final arbiters of their own healthcare. In terms of those who come right out and identify as LGBTQ, therapy should be offered in an identity reaffirmation capacity. At least that’s what I think.

When it comes to minors however, they should definitely be protected from abuse and according to testimonies (and yes, I’m aware they’re anecdotal), these conversion camps are purported to be abusive.

The fact that psychologists have called them abusive should be enough to say that minors should be protected from them. Just the effect on suicide rates is terrifying enough.

It would be great if psychological knowledge was equal for everyone. Sadly it isn’t. Treating a sexual orientation as a disease is completely backwards imo, and supremely harmful to minors.

[Bluepillar]

Yikes. Well I can say for a fact that my mother going even further and trying to "cure" me would've absolutely resulted in me killing myself. Wouldn't have been the only thing that encouraged me to go that route, either, considering her homophobia, an abusive home, and the police brutality incident I survived was all I needed to contemplate. Children in the homes of homophobes already have enough issues. Compounding that with things such as "deconstruction", a tactic of conversion therapy, only compounds the psychological harm and raises the risk of a child becoming an addition to a horrible statistic like I almost was.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Confused. Did LDS (Mormons) oppose Utah’s ban on conversion therapy or were behind it? Sources seem to indicate conflicting stances. Some say they opposed the ban while others say they were pro the ban.

[American Pere Housh]

[Geneviev]

The fact that psychologists have called them abusive should be enough to say that minors should be protected from them. Just the effect on suicide rates is terrifying enough.

It would be great if psychological knowledge was equal for everyone. Sadly it isn’t. Treating a sexual orientation as a disease is completely backwards imo, and supremely harmful to minors.

Yes, definitely. I think a part of the solution would just be better education. When people actually understand how psychology works, as a science, they will be better at recognizing things like this that are more harmful and not supported by the evidence.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It would be great if psychological knowledge was equal for everyone. Sadly it isn’t. Treating a sexual orientation as a disease is completely backwards imo, and supremely harmful to minors.

Yes, definitely. I think a part of the solution would just be better education. When people actually understand how psychology works, as a science, they will be better at recognizing things like this that are more harmful and not supported by the evidence.

You’d think that would do it but with some sectors of the population still considering LGBTQ people as sinners, or with mental health professionals who think reparative therapy isn’t outdated, mere education on psychology won’t eliminate the practice. My main concern is minors subjected to this. If you’re an adult, well, whatever, but kids that can’t consent to being subjected to it is worrisome.

[Parxland]

But conversion therapy is fundamentally abusive. Especially when its done on minors(who were the only one the ban applied to.) Even if it leaves out the physical torture, trying to force someone to deny their sexual orientation does do harm. Parents dont have a right to abuse their kids.

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

I find the current medical field surrounding treatment of 'mental illness' woefully inadequate. Oh Boy, I wish what I was born with would stop being stigmatized as a mental illness. I sure as hell didn't ask for the judgment and ostracization that came with it.

Yikes. Well I can say for a fact that my mother going even further and trying to "cure" me would've absolutely resulted in me killing myself. Wouldn't have been the only thing that encouraged me to go that route, either, considering her homophobia, an abusive home, and the police brutality incident I survived was all I needed to contemplate. Children in the homes of homophobes already have enough issues. Compounding that with things such as "deconstruction", a tactic of conversion therapy, only compounds the psychological harm and raises the risk of a child becoming an addition to a horrible statistic like I almost was.

That sucks. Hope you gave your mother the finger and disowned her. Would serve them right to never see any grandchildren from you.

But conversion therapy is fundamentally abusive. Especially when its done on minors(who were the only one the ban applied to.) Even if it leaves out the physical torture, trying to force someone to deny their sexual orientation does do harm. Parents dont have a right to abuse their kids.

I can empathize. Sounds like it'd be scary.

In my defense, what I want to imagine 'conversion therapy' to be is a healthy, regulated practices though which would help people deal with their confusion and help them figure out if being straight is what they really want. Not whatever the fuck is wrong with it right now.

[Geneviev]

Yes, definitely. I think a part of the solution would just be better education. When people actually understand how psychology works, as a science, they will be better at recognizing things like this that are more harmful and not supported by the evidence.

You’d think that would do it but with some sectors of the population still considering LGBTQ people as sinners, or with mental health professionals who think reparative therapy isn’t outdated, mere education on psychology won’t eliminate the practice. My main concern is minors subjected to this. If you’re an adult, well, whatever, but kids that can’t consent to being subjected to it is worrisome.

It might not eliminate it, that much is true. But education would at least make it much, much less common and accepted. The majority would see that it's not real and not scientific, and then it might just die out naturally. A few people who maintain those beliefs won't be enough to continue with harming people. And until that time, it should really be banned for minors. Like you said, they can't consent.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

I find the current medical field surrounding treatment of 'mental illness' woefully inadequate. Oh Boy, I wish what I was born with would stop being stigmatized as a mental illness. I sure as hell didn't ask for the judgment and ostracization that came with it.

Yikes. Well I can say for a fact that my mother going even further and trying to "cure" me would've absolutely resulted in me killing myself. Wouldn't have been the only thing that encouraged me to go that route, either, considering her homophobia, an abusive home, and the police brutality incident I survived was all I needed to contemplate. Children in the homes of homophobes already have enough issues. Compounding that with things such as "deconstruction", a tactic of conversion therapy, only compounds the psychological harm and raises the risk of a child becoming an addition to a horrible statistic like I almost was.

That sucks. Hope you gave your mother the finger and disowned her. Would serve them right to never see any grandchildren from you.

But conversion therapy is fundamentally abusive. Especially when its done on minors(who were the only one the ban applied to.) Even if it leaves out the physical torture, trying to force someone to deny their sexual orientation does do harm. Parents dont have a right to abuse their kids.

I can empathize. Sounds like it'd be scary. What I imagine is healthy, regulated practices though which would help people deal with their confusion. Not whatever the fuck is wrong with conversion therapy right now.

You’re in the ASD, am I right?

[Bluepillar]

It comes from the a priori assumption that being LGBTQ is being mentally ill. Being LGBTQ hasn’t been seen as a mental illness by mental health professionals since 1973, approximately. Being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, queer, is not being mentally ill.

I find the current medical field surrounding treatment of 'mental illness' woefully inadequate. Oh Boy, I wish what I was born with would stop being stigmatized as a mental illness. I sure as hell didn't ask for the judgment and ostracization that came with it.

Yikes. Well I can say for a fact that my mother going even further and trying to "cure" me would've absolutely resulted in me killing myself. Wouldn't have been the only thing that encouraged me to go that route, either, considering her homophobia, an abusive home, and the police brutality incident I survived was all I needed to contemplate. Children in the homes of homophobes already have enough issues. Compounding that with things such as "deconstruction", a tactic of conversion therapy, only compounds the psychological harm and raises the risk of a child becoming an addition to a horrible statistic like I almost was.

That sucks. Hope you gave your mother the finger and disowned her. Would serve them right to never see any grandchildren from you.

But conversion therapy is fundamentally abusive. Especially when its done on minors(who were the only one the ban applied to.) Even if it leaves out the physical torture, trying to force someone to deny their sexual orientation does do harm. Parents dont have a right to abuse their kids.

I can empathize. Sounds like it'd be scary.

In my defense, what I want to imagine 'conversion therapy' to be is a healthy, regulated practices though which would help people deal with their confusion and help them figure out if being straight is what they really want. Not whatever the fuck is wrong with it right now.

Fuck no. The unspeakable things my family did to me kinda... messed some stuff up for me, and I have yet to successfully move away from home. It's a waiting game while she tries to institute legitimate change in herself cause she realized I was gonna ditch the entire fucking family as soon as I got away right about the time I started lashing out at her for what my family did to me.

And hoooly fuck. I've already decided which relatives aren't going to see the cats I want. They're the same people I won't give access to the children I'll have.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You’d think that would do it but with some sectors of the population still considering LGBTQ people as sinners, or with mental health professionals who think reparative therapy isn’t outdated, mere education on psychology won’t eliminate the practice. My main concern is minors subjected to this. If you’re an adult, well, whatever, but kids that can’t consent to being subjected to it is worrisome.

It might not eliminate it, that much is true. But education would at least make it much, much less common and accepted. The majority would see that it's not real and not scientific, and then it might just die out naturally. A few people who maintain those beliefs won't be enough to continue with harming people. And until that time, it should really be banned for minors. Like you said, they can't consent.

When you have certain churches rebranding the practice as “identity workshops”, there’s no doubt in my mind that the practice won’t die naturally. People are known to reject knowledge, even when backed by evidence. Not unless you forcefully ban it for minors at least.

[Parxland]

I find the current medical field surrounding treatment of 'mental illness' woefully inadequate. Oh Boy, I wish what I was born with would stop being stigmatized as a mental illness. I sure as hell didn't ask for the judgment and ostracization that came with it.



That sucks. Hope you gave your mother the finger and disowned her. Would serve them right to never see any grandchildren from you.



I can empathize. Sounds like it'd be scary. What I imagine is healthy, regulated practices though which would help people deal with their confusion. Not whatever the fuck is wrong with conversion therapy right now.

You’re in the ASD, am I right?

What's ASD? I'm diagnosed with being dark and edgy anti-hero. My parents were killed in an alleyway by a mugger and I compensate for that trauma in adulthood by dressing up as a humanoid bat and going out at night to beat up random strangers.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You’re in the ASD, am I right?

What's ASD? I'm diagnosed with being dark and edgy anti-hero. My parents were killed in an alleyway by a mugger and I compensate for that trauma in adulthood by dressing up as a humanoid bat and going out at night to beat up random strangers.

Bruce, wrong cave.

[Nakena]

What's ASD? I'm diagnosed with being dark and edgy anti-hero. My parents were killed in an alleyway by a mugger and I compensate for that trauma in adulthood by dressing up as a humanoid bat and going out at night to beat up random strangers.

Bruce, wrong cave.

Seems like today is one of those days.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Bruce, wrong cave.

Seems like today is one of those days.

I tell you. Somewhere along the way this year, we made the wrong turn and entered an alternate dimension of fuckery.

[Bluepillar]

Bruce, wrong cave.

Seems like today is one of those days.

Isn't it always?

[Geneviev]

It might not eliminate it, that much is true. But education would at least make it much, much less common and accepted. The majority would see that it's not real and not scientific, and then it might just die out naturally. A few people who maintain those beliefs won't be enough to continue with harming people. And until that time, it should really be banned for minors. Like you said, they can't consent.

When you have certain churches rebranding the practice as “identity workshops”, there’s no doubt in my mind that the practice won’t die naturally. People are known to reject knowledge, even when backed by evidence. Not unless you forcefully ban it for minors at least.

That's all happening before we fix education. That is essential to actually forcing it to die naturally. It will make it harder to reject knowledge, because they know where the knowledge comes from and know how to judge whether it's true.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When you have certain churches rebranding the practice as “identity workshops”, there’s no doubt in my mind that the practice won’t die naturally. People are known to reject knowledge, even when backed by evidence. Not unless you forcefully ban it for minors at least.

That's all happening before we fix education. That is essential to actually forcing it to die naturally. It will make it harder to reject knowledge, because they know where the knowledge comes from and know how to judge whether it's true.

If it were that easy, don’t you think we wouldn’t be experiencing the US election fuckery?

Mind you, education is indeed key, but it alone won’t force the belief in conversion therapy to die naturally. It needs something more forceful, like an outright ban, to protect children.