NationStates

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:49 pm**

Woaaah. So much for "a stupid discussion with no complexity behind it" talked about by the one with the red fedora fantasy. I see pleeenty of complexity here haha I didn't expect many people to get involved in this discussion, tbh.

Neanderthaland wrote:I feel the need to point out again that OP mentioned these curses may involve self-harm, or animal sacrifice, or is otherwise "quite draining or expensive or costly to do." So as much as I enjoy a philosophical discussion of whether merely wishing harm constitutes wickedness, that's not quite what we're dealing with here. Actual harm is being done in the futile pursuit of a greater harm.

This being the case, the main victim in all of this (aside from the animal) is you. The person performing the curse. That was probably always going to be the case anyway, since obsessing over vengeance fantasies is not a path to health and happiness. But this is really going the extra mile with the sort of toxic, wallowing self-pity, and anger.

You're going to end up being someone that no one wants to be around. And you're also going to be down time, money, and/or an animal.

It seems Ug has figured out a loooot more than fire. Time for mod to destroy Ug.

TBH, yeah. Ritual work is time draining, and can even be exhausting depending on how you do it. Lots of rituals require materials, called reagents by some.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:02 pm**

Of course not, just like you don't shoot minors.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:08 pm**

The Emerald Legion wrote:Of course not, just like you don't shoot minors.

Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:19 pm**

Eahland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The "actively trying to slow the rotation of the Earth" is a fiction. The reality is that it's just a man pushing on a rockface, the delusion doesn't change what is happening. Activity exists in the scenario, but not the activity that the person thinks is happening.

He's still expending physical effort in an attempt to achieve that end. Does the fact that he's not succeeding - and in fact cannot succeed - mean that he isn't trying?

If you attempt to pick up a weight, and it's beyond your capacity to lift, does the fact that you failed mean you didn't try to do it?

It's not just do or do not. There is such a thing as trying.

But legally, it's not considered actively trying to harm someone. A man trying to hex an enemy is not the same as a man going to a busy place with a gun with the intent to commit a mass shooting.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:36 pm**

Xmara wrote:
Eahland wrote:He's still expending physical effort in an attempt to achieve that end. Does the fact that he's not succeeding - and in fact cannot succeed - mean that he isn't trying?

If you attempt to pick up a weight, and it's beyond your capacity to lift, does the fact that you failed mean you didn't try to do it?

It's not just do or do not. There is such a thing as trying.

But legally, it's not considered actively trying to harm someone. A man trying to hex an enemy is not the same as a man going to a busy place with a gun with the intent to commit a mass shooting.

Depends on the judge and jury I think. Would a "reasonable person" expect hexing to work? Did the prosecutor knock on wood during his opening address?

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:53 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Of course not, just like you don't shoot minors.

Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

You shouldn't force them to watch Bette Midler movies either.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:11 pm**

Joker is the only trump wrote:
Xmara wrote:But legally, it's not considered actively trying to harm someone. A man trying to hex an enemy is not the same as a man going to a busy place with a gun with the intent to commit a mass shooting.

Depends on the judge and jury I think. Would a "reasonable person" expect hexing to work? Did the prosecutor knock on wood during his opening address?

No judge is gonna take a plaintiff who claims to have been hexed seriously.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:12 pm**

Neanderthaland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

You shouldn't force them to watch Bette Midler movies either.

Hocus Pocus is an American classic and you can’t tell me otherwise

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:14 pm**

Neanderthaland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

You shouldn't force them to watch Bette Midler movies either.

I Put a Spell on You...

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:23 pm**

Xmara wrote:
Joker is the only trump wrote:
Depends on the judge and jury I think. Would a "reasonable person" expect hexing to work? Did the prosecutor knock on wood during his opening address?

No judge is gonna take a plaintiff who claims to have been hexed seriously.

It's true. We also have freedom of religion in lots of places.

This isn't a legal debate, but a moral one about issues within a broad segment of religions and beliefs - one of which is the targeting of minors.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:52 pm**

Neanderthaland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

You shouldn't force them to watch Bette Midler movies either.

Ruthless people was kind of cute.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:06 pm**

Neanderthaland wrote:I feel the need to point out again that OP mentioned these curses may involve self-harm, or animal sacrifice, or is otherwise "quite draining or expensive or costly to do." So as much as I enjoy a philosophical discussion of whether merely wishing harm constitutes wickedness, that's not quite what we're dealing with here. Actual harm is being done in the futile pursuit of a greater harm.

This being the case, the main victim in all of this (aside from the animal) is you. The person performing the curse. That was probably always going to be the case anyway, since obsessing over vengeance fantasies is not a path to health and happiness. But this is really going the extra mile with the sort of toxic, wallowing self-pity, and anger.

You're going to end up being someone that no one wants to be around. And you're also going to be down time, money, and/or an animal.

Neanderthaland does make an interesting point.

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:16 pm**

Xmara wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:You shouldn't force them to watch Bette Midler movies either.

Hocus Pocus is an American classic and you can’t tell me otherwise

Could do without all the weird insults about the MC's virginity, but otherwise I'm in complete agreement.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:04 am**

Adamede wrote:
Kubra wrote:Really now, does that nanny state want to regulate perfectly healthy magical interactions? What's next, wand licenses?

I mean doesn’t it seem kinda weird to you that what is essentially the wizard equivalent of a gun (when used with the right spells) is standard school equipment for learning wizards?

no. You see, they have this thing called RIGHTS. Not that the Ministry of magic knows, going so far as to ban avada kedavra in justifiable self-defense.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:06 am**

Adamede wrote:
Kubra wrote:Really now, does that nanny state want to regulate perfectly healthy magical interactions? What's next, wand licenses?

I mean doesn’t it seem kinda weird to you that what is essentially the wizard equivalent of a gun (when used with the right spells) is standard school equipment for learning wizards?

To be fair, it is more akin to a swiss army knife. With a very large and deadly blade.
To be even more fair, one assumes that most of the teenage boys were far more interested in engorgio'ing certain things than in killing others.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:19 am**

The Alma Mater wrote:
Adamede wrote:I mean doesn’t it seem kinda weird to you that what is essentially the wizard equivalent of a gun (when used with the right spells) is standard school equipment for learning wizards?

To be fair, it is more akin to a swiss army knife. With a very large and deadly blade.
To be even more fair, one assumes that most of the teenage boys were far more interested in engorgio'ing certain things than in killing others.

if spell persists for over 4 hours immediately call for medical assistance

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:36 am**

I don't believe in magic, but if it does exist, then no, I don't think there are many people who literally would deserve that.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:51 am**

I don't believe in magic, but no. No one, child or otherwise, deserves that

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:02 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Of course not, just like you don't shoot minors.

Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

Not really.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:04 pm**

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

Not really.

Seeing as shooting someone does actual immediate harm and hexing has no real evidence of actually working, I’m going to call bs here.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:05 pm**

Andsed wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Not really.

Seeing as shooting someone does actual immediate harm and hexing has no real evidence of actually working, I’m going to call bs here.

Still kinda seems weird, though. Like, you have the intent of harming a child, whether or not it actually works. Is that not cause for concern, at the very least?

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:18 pm**

Fyrn-Gestreon wrote:
Andsed wrote:Seeing as shooting someone does actual immediate harm and hexing has no real evidence of actually working, I’m going to call bs here.

Still kinda seems weird, though. Like, you have the intent of harming a child, whether or not it actually works. Is that not cause for concern, at the very least?

I agree with that. I am just pointing out that actually hurting someone is worse than just wanting to.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 pm**

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Of course not, just like you don't shoot minors.
The New California Republic wrote:Shooting minors with an actual gun a bit different from using fictional bad juju hocus pocus nonsense on them.

Not really.

Yes, really.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:26 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Not really.

Yes, really.

Well I guess in the technical sense of 'yes using fictional curses on minors isn't as bad as shooting them with a non-fictional gun' but using non-fictional curses is just as bad.

Andsed wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Not really.

Seeing as shooting someone does actual immediate harm and hexing has no real evidence of actually working, I’m going to call bs here.

I mean, while the OP's particular style of magic isn't something I believe in, I do 100% seriously believe curses are a thing that can happen and should be taken seriously.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:28 pm**

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Yes, really.

Well I guess in the technical sense of 'yes using fictional curses on minors isn't as bad as shooting them with a non-fictional gun' but using non-fictional curses is just as bad.

Non-fictional curses do not exist, or more accurately have no real evidence of doing anything. Shooting someone with a gun does harm them, quite a bit. Ergo it is a worse act.

NationStates

Is Hexing/Cursing Minors Ever Okay?