Is Hexing/Cursing Minors Ever Okay?

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

Do you still not see how that's still in really bad faith? Your initial argument was that somehow, that user was being a hypocrite because somehow they were making a truth claim about wizards.

Whether magic is real or not is something I don't particularly care about, but if you're going to engage with a topic, at least do so in good faith. Otherwise you're just hogging up space on the board that could be used for interesting discussion to basically throw obfuscated insults around like a monkey throws its own shit.

Uh no? If your going to claim someone is in bad faith actually address their arguments. Because Neanderthaland was very clearly pointing out that it was hypocritical for Bluepillar to use how niche "wizards" are to discredit their beliefs while complaining about people doing the same to "witches."

No, they were clearly just expounding on their beliefs, since Neanderthaland was cracking jokes (which is actually fine, since he wasn't actually trying to argue a point with them at the time. Here's that thread:

We can form a trio with "Privileged White Wizard" and "Privileged White Walker."

zombies make me cry.

interestingly, wizards aren't really a thing, most of the time. witches no matter their gender identity are just witches, usually. The only person I can think of that calls himself a wizard is Oberon Zell, and that's an entirely different can of worms.

This doesn't read as an attempt to discredit, just explain. Please, at least try to read the tone of the person in a conversation...

[Neanderthaland]

Yeah, but so what? If even one person does it, they have just as much credibility as a million people calling themselves witches. None.

This is bigotry. You are complicit in genocide unless you address and refer to me by my proper titles as a wizard of the realm of Andalusia Centauri.

Apologies, my Lord.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

Do you still not see how that's still in really bad faith? Your initial argument was that somehow, that user was being a hypocrite because somehow they were making a truth claim about wizards.

Whether magic is real or not is something I don't particularly care about, but if you're going to engage with a topic, at least do so in good faith. Otherwise you're just hogging up space on the board that could be used for interesting discussion to basically throw obfuscated insults around like a monkey throws its own shit.

You realize I would be taking up less forum space if you would stop posting "BAD FAITH!" at me every two seconds? Yes?

I didn't say they were being a hypocrite, I said I found it ironic. Though, as others have pointed out, OP is guilty of hypocrisy on several levels. Furthermore, I have contributed meaningfully to the topic, as both OP and others have remarked upon.

But I understand you have some pathological need to try and browbeat others. Well good luck with that. It's not going to work on me, since I have beat-resistant brow-ridges. But maybe if you try it elsewhere you'll have more success.

I don't know about your earlier contributions here, but that argument just seemed egregious to me. I'm sorry if I misread your intent there.

EDIT: I specifically read bad faith into that argument because it was... well, nonsense. "Funny how you claim wizards don't exist (a claim that was never specifically made), and yet you call yourself a witch. Curious." I apologize if the bad faith reading was inaccurate, but that doesn't change the fact that the argument you made is... well, bad.

[Bluepillar]

Some of you guys need therapy. You have spent waaay to much time and effort on a thread tooting your horn about your own beliefs, how mine are fake, and mocking me, and I'm supposed to just let you invent a story about how I said wizards were fake or something? I don't know how that happened, and I'm not gonna bother to read the entire thing. I've met a few, and I'm not a fucking Wiccan. Neither of you guys have a monopoly on your faiths, and no one has a monopoly on any faith, and it's getting really annoying to have to keep arguing every five seconds because even after I tried to get the thread back on track we're off of it again.

Why not just engage in the conversation with good faith, and drop the pretensiousness? Right now, to me, the worth of this conversation is greatly reduced by the presence of certain figures.

[Bluepillar]

Do you still not see how that's still in really bad faith? Your initial argument was that somehow, that user was being a hypocrite because somehow they were making a truth claim about wizards.

Whether magic is real or not is something I don't particularly care about, but if you're going to engage with a topic, at least do so in good faith. Otherwise you're just hogging up space on the board that could be used for interesting discussion to basically throw obfuscated insults around like a monkey throws its own shit.

You realize I would be taking up less forum space if you would stop posting "BAD FAITH!" at me every two seconds? Yes?

I didn't say they were being a hypocrite, I said I found it ironic. Though, as others have pointed out, OP is guilty of hypocrisy on several levels. Furthermore, I have contributed meaningfully to the topic, as both OP and others have remarked upon.

But I understand you have some pathological need to try and browbeat others. Well good luck with that. It's not going to work on me, since I have beat-resistant brow-ridges. But maybe if you try it elsewhere you'll have more success.

And those others were more than wrong, frankly. I explained that.

[Ethel mermania]

<=== makes popcorn

[Neanderthaland]

You realize I would be taking up less forum space if you would stop posting "BAD FAITH!" at me every two seconds? Yes?

I didn't say they were being a hypocrite, I said I found it ironic. Though, as others have pointed out, OP is guilty of hypocrisy on several levels. Furthermore, I have contributed meaningfully to the topic, as both OP and others have remarked upon.

But I understand you have some pathological need to try and browbeat others. Well good luck with that. It's not going to work on me, since I have beat-resistant brow-ridges. But maybe if you try it elsewhere you'll have more success.

And those others were more than wrong, frankly. I explained that.

Yeah, I didn't find your explainery compelling.

[Bluepillar]

And those others were more than wrong, frankly. I explained that.

Yeah, I didn't find your explainery compelling.

Yes, well, those were all faiths that were dangerous, racist, fake, or a mix of those things.

No witch claimed to ever invent an entire religion to steal money from people, witches don't have a historical legacy of transphobia, homophobia, racism, or genocide, and so far it seems non-racist witches vastly outnumber the racist witches.

I don't care for absolutes. Not even freedom of speech is absolute in my country, and it's one of our foremost rights.

What I did is significantly different from someone deciding that I'm not a witch because witches don't exist. Do you know what I call people who think witches don't exist? Deluded. Witchcraft is one of the oldest expressions of faith to exist. Even ancient Christians had witchcraft.

[Farnhamia]

Some of you guys need therapy. You have spent waaay to much time and effort on a thread tooting your horn about your own beliefs, how mine are fake, and mocking me, and I'm supposed to just let you invent a story about how I said wizards were fake or something? I don't know how that happened, and I'm not gonna bother to read the entire thing. I've met a few, and I'm not a fucking Wiccan. Neither of you guys have a monopoly on your faiths, and no one has a monopoly on any faith, and it's getting really annoying to have to keep arguing every five seconds because even after I tried to get the thread back on track we're off of it again.

Why not just engage in the conversation with good faith, and drop the pretensiousness? Right now, to me, the worth of this conversation is greatly reduced by the presence of certain figures.

Suggesting that people need therapy is flaming (with a touch of trolling). Don't do it. If you had left out that one sentence, I wouldn't have said anything. Sometimes when a person starts a thread, the outcome is not what they expected. You can't forbid people to post in the thread. The most you can do is bring specific posts that hijack the thread to the Mod Team (and not one-off posts, but a continuous diversion of the thread).

That said ... LISTEN UP, PEOPLE! Stay on topic. If you think the topic is silly, go play somewhere else. Go read a book. Get some marble and pretend you're Michelangelo.

[Bluepillar]

I don't need the people insulting or mocking me to find anything compelling. You can think what you want. You have have your own truth where you're the good guys, the keyboard and social justice warriors for civilization, intellectualism, and religion, or why ever the fuck it is you're doing what you're doing. And I'll have mine, where people have decided to be [redacted cause Farn thinks I'm not being nice enough despite me being vague about who is what] for no reason.

Weirdly, I don't care as much this time around. NS is always going to be a little toxic. You can get upset that I don't care for your toxicity, or accuse me of hypocrisy, or bigotry all you want... and then I'm not going to give a shit. People grow up. That's part of why I don't care. Maybe the people that think they can insult and mock people just because we like to meditate, and, I don't know, do other things that make us feel better can do that some day.

[Neanderthaland]

Yeah, I didn't find your explainery compelling.

Yes, well, those were all faiths that were dangerous, racist, fake, or a mix of those things.

No witch claimed to ever invent an entire religion to steal money from people, witches don't have a historical legacy of transphobia, homophobia, racism, or genocide, and so far it seems non-racist witches vastly outnumber the racist witches.

I don't care for absolutes. Not even freedom of speech is absolute in my country, and it's one of our foremost rights.

Well you just made several "No witch ever" absolutes there. Which will be pretty hard to justify. I don't know how you're defining "witches" but it seems unlikely that if they've existed for over a hundred years they don't have a history of at least some of that. Since pretty much everyone did.

But I'm open to be proven wrong on that. Please provide sourced statistics.

What I did is significantly different from someone deciding that I'm not a witch because witches don't exist. Do you know what I call people who think witches don't exist? Deluded. Witchcraft is one of the oldest expressions of faith to exist. Even ancient Christians had witchcraft.

Again, I don't know what you're defining as "witchcraft" but this statement seems either trivial or false. To the extent that witchcraft just refers to folk medicine and holdover pagan religious rituals, this is a trivial claim. To the extent that "ancient" Christians practiced "witchcraft" as we now imagine it, it is a false claim.


EDIT: FARN POST SEEN. TOPIC SUSPENDED.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

I don't need the people insulting or mocking me to find anything compelling. You can think what you want. You have have your own truth where you're the good guys, the warriors for intellectualism, and religion, or why ever the fuck it is you're doing what you're doing. And I'll have mine, where people have decided to be assholes for no reason.

Weirdly, I don't care as much this time around. NS is always going to be a little toxic. You can get upset that I don't care for your toxicity, or accuse me of hypocrisy, or bigotry all you want... and then I'm not going to give a shit. People grow up. Maybe the people that think they can insult and mock people just because we like to meditate, and, I don't know, do other things that make us feel better can do that some day.

I mean, I have a younger brother who does the kinds of things you're describing here. Whether or not I personally believe it, it seems to help him a lot, so I see no reason to argue against it.

However, you did start this thread using a question that, in its underlying assumption, does rely on a belief in magic. As such, you have to expect this kind of debate to happen, whether it's done well or not.

[Bluepillar]

Yes, well, those were all faiths that were dangerous, racist, fake, or a mix of those things.

No witch claimed to ever invent an entire religion to steal money from people, witches don't have a historical legacy of transphobia, homophobia, racism, or genocide, and so far it seems non-racist witches vastly outnumber the racist witches.

I don't care for absolutes. Not even freedom of speech is absolute in my country, and it's one of our foremost rights.

Well you just made several "No witch ever" absolutes there. Which will be pretty hard to justify. I don't know how you're defining "witches" but it seems unlikely that if they've existed for over a hundred years they don't have a history of at least some of that. Since pretty much everyone did.

But I'm open to be proven wrong on that. Please provide sourced statistics.

What I did is significantly different from someone deciding that I'm not a witch because witches don't exist. Do you know what I call people who think witches don't exist? Deluded. Witchcraft is one of the oldest expressions of faith to exist. Even ancient Christians had witchcraft.

Again, I don't know what you're defining as "witchcraft" but this statement seems either trivial or false. To the extent that witchcraft just refers to folk medicine and holdover pagan religious rituals, this is a trivial claim. To the extent that "ancient" Christians practiced "witchcraft" as we now imagine it, it is a false claim.

Ah, nice. So all you have now is picking at little things you notice, forgetting that no witch ever claimed to invent witchcraft as a broad thing for money (unlike the dude that invented scientology).

And bro... you're entire message here was a trivial thing. It's also bullshit, and shows a stark lack of knowledge. Go read about the Goetia cult of Hekate, or theourgia, or the history of the oracles of Delphi, and the place of goetia and theourgia within Greek society - then get back to me on how witches are some sort of new phenomena, and how, somehiow, despite my English translation of portions of the Greek Magical Papyri, or my interest in divination through marbles (another Greek thing) I'm practicing something that occurred within the last 100 years.

Or, like... most forms of European paganism, or the old ways of the Norse peoples. Did you know that there is still a network of priests in Sweden dedicated to the Nordic Gods? We're everywhere, and we have very detailed histories that you'd know existed if you had any idea of what you were talking about.

Everything you're saying screams of a complete lack of education on anything that isn't whatever it is you believe. I said before, I don't care, I don't have anything to prove, and Farnhamia said if you think this is silly you can go elsewhere. I suggest a book or two, preferably on this subject so that when you come back I can speak to you like you're an adult, and not someone that bases their entire world view and personality off of what their mother told them, or, you know, what they don't know.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

Yes, well, those were all faiths that were dangerous, racist, fake, or a mix of those things.

No witch claimed to ever invent an entire religion to steal money from people, witches don't have a historical legacy of transphobia, homophobia, racism, or genocide, and so far it seems non-racist witches vastly outnumber the racist witches.

I don't care for absolutes. Not even freedom of speech is absolute in my country, and it's one of our foremost rights.

Well you just made several "No witch ever" absolutes there. Which will be pretty hard to justify. I don't know how you're defining "witches" but it seems unlikely that if they've existed for over a hundred years they don't have a history of at least some of that. Since pretty much everyone did.

But I'm open to be proven wrong on that. Please provide sourced statistics.

Most witches I've met (and I've met quite a few) tend to be pretty progressive. I realize that's kind of just an anecdote, but there's not really much research into this kind of thing. I am aware of the existence of some forms of paganism that are pretty well-tied to white nationalism, but I'm not sure how well that pertains to the topic of harmless practice.

[Bluepillar]

I don't need the people insulting or mocking me to find anything compelling. You can think what you want. You have have your own truth where you're the good guys, the warriors for intellectualism, and religion, or why ever the fuck it is you're doing what you're doing. And I'll have mine, where people have decided to be assholes for no reason.

Weirdly, I don't care as much this time around. NS is always going to be a little toxic. You can get upset that I don't care for your toxicity, or accuse me of hypocrisy, or bigotry all you want... and then I'm not going to give a shit. People grow up. Maybe the people that think they can insult and mock people just because we like to meditate, and, I don't know, do other things that make us feel better can do that some day.

I mean, I have a younger brother who does the kinds of things you're describing here. Whether or not I personally believe it, it seems to help him a lot, so I see no reason to argue against it.

However, you did start this thread using a question that, in its underlying assumption, does rely on a belief in magic. As such, you have to expect this kind of debate to happen, whether it's done well or not.

I'm used to dealing with people that conveniently forget everything that predates the Catholic church trying, and failing, to eradicate my kind.

[Bluepillar]

Well you just made several "No witch ever" absolutes there. Which will be pretty hard to justify. I don't know how you're defining "witches" but it seems unlikely that if they've existed for over a hundred years they don't have a history of at least some of that. Since pretty much everyone did.

But I'm open to be proven wrong on that. Please provide sourced statistics.

Most witches I've met (and I've met quite a few) tend to be pretty progressive. I realize that's kind of just an anecdote, but there's not really much research into this kind of thing. I am aware of the existence of some forms of paganism that are pretty well-tied to white nationalism, but I'm not sure how well that pertains to the topic of harmless practice.

The Order of Nine ANgels, Priesthood of Phinneas, and various other forms of paganism do have connections to or are white nationalism.

but if someone that claims to follow Odin, who also happens to be Nazish, ever threatens you with the Norse pantheon, or some bullshit - ignore that fucker. Odin doesn't really care for white nationalists. After all, the Viking weren't a warrior culture. They were, in fact, multicultural and multiethnic.

There are also pagans that don't realize Roman statues have lost all of their colors... and so did most of anything else that's Roman. Which is unfortunate. The Roman society was extreeeemely colorful.

The white supremacist past of such things is, in fact, a complete fabrication.

The white supremacist pagans are dangerous when they want to kill you, or start a Jihad for their white supremacist agenda, not when some angsty fucker in a discord with an area specifically for Nazis sends a message with a picture of his, admittedly, very cool language over the chat to "curse" you.

I've met members of O9A. They're not... pleasant haha.

The dangerous white supremacists are dangerous cause of other things.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

I mean, I have a younger brother who does the kinds of things you're describing here. Whether or not I personally believe it, it seems to help him a lot, so I see no reason to argue against it.

However, you did start this thread using a question that, in its underlying assumption, does rely on a belief in magic. As such, you have to expect this kind of debate to happen, whether it's done well or not.

I'm used to dealing with people that conveniently forget everything that predates the Catholic church trying, and failing, to eradicate my kind.

Not sure how bringing up the witch hunts relates to people believing or not believing in magic. All I'm saying is that people arguing against the premise of the topic is something you have to expect, no matter what platform you post it on.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

Most witches I've met (and I've met quite a few) tend to be pretty progressive. I realize that's kind of just an anecdote, but there's not really much research into this kind of thing. I am aware of the existence of some forms of paganism that are pretty well-tied to white nationalism, but I'm not sure how well that pertains to the topic of harmless practice.

The Order of Nine ANgels, Priesthood of Phinneas, and various other forms of paganism do have connections to or are white nationalism.

but if someone that claims to follow Odin, who also happens to be Nazish, ever threatens you with the Norse pantheon, or some bullshit - ignore that fucker. Odin doesn't really care for white nationalists. After all, the Viking weren't a warrior culture. They were, in fact, multicultural and multiethnic.

There are also pagans that don't realize Roman statues have lost all of their colors... and so did most of anything else that's Roman. Which is unfortunate. The Roman society was extreeeemely colorful.

The white supremacist past of such things is, in fact, a complete fabrication.

If memory serves, we've lost a lot of information on what the old Norse were actually like. However, Vikings themselves were pirates that eventually kind of morphed into traders, and considering how much they interacted with the Muslim world, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to say that they were white supremacist lol

[Bluepillar]

I'm used to dealing with people that conveniently forget everything that predates the Catholic church trying, and failing, to eradicate my kind.

Not sure how bringing up the witch hunts relates to people believing or not believing in magic. All I'm saying is that people arguing against the premise of the topic is something you have to expect, no matter what platform you post it on.

I mean, someone seriously just typed out, with a straight face I imagine, that witches have only existed for 100 years - forgetting an entire human history laced with men, women, and those not either of those that partook in the mystical. I can literally buy a guide on Egyptian religion created by an occultist that is also, oh look, an actual Egyptologist. Or a similar one for Greek beliefs.

Or I can find a digitized, typed up, English translation of a tome on certain magicks I'll leave vague that the use of some of the stuff within might be... kinda illegal, nowadays? But I can get it.

Even demonology is old as fuck. It started popping up when pagan gods began to be reduced to "demons" for Christians to fear. Gods will take worshippers in many of the forms they come in.

[Bluepillar]

The Order of Nine Angels, Priesthood of Phinneas, and various other forms of paganism do have connections to or are white nationalism.

but if someone that claims to follow Odin, who also happens to be Nazish, ever threatens you with the Norse pantheon, or some bullshit - ignore that fucker. Odin doesn't really care for white nationalists. After all, the Viking weren't a warrior culture. They were, in fact, multicultural and multiethnic.

There are also pagans that don't realize Roman statues have lost all of their colors... and so did most of anything else that's Roman. Which is unfortunate. The Roman society was extreeeemely colorful.

The white supremacist past of such things is, in fact, a complete fabrication.

If memory serves, we've lost a lot of information on what the old Norse were actually like. However, Vikings themselves were pirates that eventually kind of morphed into traders, and considering how much they interacted with the Muslim world, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to say that they were white supremacist lol

There are sooooo many white supremacist "Norse pagans". so many. It sucks to deal with them.

[Neanderthaland]

Well you just made several "No witch ever" absolutes there. Which will be pretty hard to justify. I don't know how you're defining "witches" but it seems unlikely that if they've existed for over a hundred years they don't have a history of at least some of that. Since pretty much everyone did.

But I'm open to be proven wrong on that. Please provide sourced statistics.


Again, I don't know what you're defining as "witchcraft" but this statement seems either trivial or false. To the extent that witchcraft just refers to folk medicine and holdover pagan religious rituals, this is a trivial claim. To the extent that "ancient" Christians practiced "witchcraft" as we now imagine it, it is a false claim.

Ah, nice. So all you have now is picking at little things you notice, forgetting that no witch ever claimed to invent witchcraft as a broad thing for money (unlike the dude that invented scientology).

And bro... you're entire message here was a trivial thing. It's also bullshit, and shows a stark lack of knowledge. Go read about the Goetia cult of Hekate, or theourgia, or the history of the oracles of Delphi, and the place of goetia and theourgia within Greek society - then get back to me on how witches are some sort of new phenomena, and how, somehiow, despite my English translation of portions of the Greek Magical Papyri, or my interest in divination through marbles (another Greek thing) I'm practicing something that occurred within the last 100 years.

Or, like... most forms of European paganism, or the old ways of the Norse peoples. Did you know that there is still a network of priests in Sweden dedicated to the Nordic Gods? We're everywhere, and we have very detailed histories that you'd know existed if you had any idea of what you were talking about.

Everything you're saying screams of a complete lack of education on anything that isn't whatever it is you believe. I said before, I don't care, I don't have anything to prove, and Farnhamia said if you think this is silly you can go elsewhere. I suggest a book or two, preferably on this subject so that when you come back I can speak to you like you're an adult, and not someone that bases their entire world view and personality off of what their mother told them, or, you know, what they don't know.

I said I'd stop, but you're pulling me back in.

"Bro" I know enough about Norse mythology that I can syncretise Norse gods to Hindu ones through their PIE progenitors (except not really, because that whole thing is kinda ) I know enough about Greek mythology that I can spell Po-se-da-o-ne in Linear B.

And what I'm telling you now is that you are amalgamating disparate, unrelated practices as if they were a single thing. Under a catchall modern moniker. And it's silly.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

Not sure how bringing up the witch hunts relates to people believing or not believing in magic. All I'm saying is that people arguing against the premise of the topic is something you have to expect, no matter what platform you post it on.

I mean, someone seriously just typed out, with a straight face, that witches have only existed for 100 years - forgetting an entire human history laced with men, women, and those not either of those that partook in the mystical. I can literally buy a guide on Egyptian religion created by an occultist that is also, oh look, an actual Egyptologist.

Even demonology is old as fuck. It started popping up when pagan gods began to be reduced to "demons" for Christians to fear. Gods will take worshippers in many of the forms they come in.

They're right in that most forms of witchcraft that people practice today didn't pop up until relatively recently. I talked about Wicca earlier, and that sprang up in the 20th century. Same with whatever Aleister Crowley was doing. Some of the oldest real traditions we still have access to are things like Enochian magic, or the demonology you brought up here, and most of them date back to the middle ages.

[Bluepillar]

Ah, nice. So all you have now is picking at little things you notice, forgetting that no witch ever claimed to invent witchcraft as a broad thing for money (unlike the dude that invented scientology).

And bro... you're entire message here was a trivial thing. It's also bullshit, and shows a stark lack of knowledge. Go read about the Goetia cult of Hekate, or theourgia, or the history of the oracles of Delphi, and the place of goetia and theourgia within Greek society - then get back to me on how witches are some sort of new phenomena, and how, somehiow, despite my English translation of portions of the Greek Magical Papyri, or my interest in divination through marbles (another Greek thing) I'm practicing something that occurred within the last 100 years.

Or, like... most forms of European paganism, or the old ways of the Norse peoples. Did you know that there is still a network of priests in Sweden dedicated to the Nordic Gods? We're everywhere, and we have very detailed histories that you'd know existed if you had any idea of what you were talking about.

Everything you're saying screams of a complete lack of education on anything that isn't whatever it is you believe. I said before, I don't care, I don't have anything to prove, and Farnhamia said if you think this is silly you can go elsewhere. I suggest a book or two, preferably on this subject so that when you come back I can speak to you like you're an adult, and not someone that bases their entire world view and personality off of what their mother told them, or, you know, what they don't know.

I said I'd stop, but you're pulling me back in.

"Bro" I know enough about Norse mythology that I can syncretise Norse gods to Hindu ones through their PIE progenitors (except not really, because that whole thing is kinda ) I know enough about Greek mythology that I can spell Po-se-da-o-ne in Linear B.

And what I'm telling you now is that you are amalgamating disparate, unrelated practices as if they were a single thing. Under a catchall modern moniker. And it's silly.

You'll also note that I don't actually tell people what flavor I practice outside of perhaps saying (or hinting?) that today what I do would probably be classified as LHP, and have been using generalizations throughout this entire thread. That was purposeful.

And I can talk about disparate, unrelated practices as if they were a single thing under a catchall, modern moniker because I don't want to leave any witches, or occultists, or practitioners of any faith out if they might be watching. And because I want to.

[Bluepillar]

I mean, someone seriously just typed out, with a straight face, that witches have only existed for 100 years - forgetting an entire human history laced with men, women, and those not either of those that partook in the mystical. I can literally buy a guide on Egyptian religion created by an occultist that is also, oh look, an actual Egyptologist.

Even demonology is old as fuck. It started popping up when pagan gods began to be reduced to "demons" for Christians to fear. Gods will take worshippers in many of the forms they come in.

They're right in that most forms of witchcraft that people practice today didn't pop up until relatively recently. I talked about Wicca earlier, and that sprang up in the 20th century. Same with whatever Aleister Crowley was doing. Some of the oldest real traditions we still have access to are things like Enochian magic, or the demonology you brought up here, and most of them date back to the middle ages.

Goetia and theourgia are plenty old.

And IK Wicca is new. It's part of why I have an aversion to following any of the rules it has. Also there are way too many.

I've hinted pretty clearly that I don't consider myself a neopagan. Or at least I hope I did.

I've been accused of being a bit too vague at times when I talk about this kind of thing.

And what you said? Yeah. That's not what this neanderthal dude said. He told me to that witchcraft pretty much only popped up within the last 100 years (which is different from most of what we have having popped up within the last 100 years), but goetia and theourgia, and the practices within, are plenty old. And have been explored long enough that it's not impossible to learn how to do any of the stuff within.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

They're right in that most forms of witchcraft that people practice today didn't pop up until relatively recently. I talked about Wicca earlier, and that sprang up in the 20th century. Same with whatever Aleister Crowley was doing. Some of the oldest real traditions we still have access to are things like Enochian magic, or the demonology you brought up here, and most of them date back to the middle ages.

Goetia and theourgia are plenty old.

And IK Wicca is new. It's part of why I have an aversion to following any of the rules it has. Also there are way too many.

I've hinted pretty clearly that I don't consider myself a neopagan. Or at least I hope I did.

I've been accused of being a bit too vague at times when I talk about this kind of thing.

And what you said? Yeah. That's not what this neanderthal dude said. He told me to that witchcraft pretty much only popped up within the last 100 years, but goetia and theourgia, and the practices within, are plenty old. And have been explored long enough that it's not impossible to learn how to do any of the stuff within.

Even though I'm not a believer, I am actually really interested in this stuff lol

But yeah, I don't get the sense Neanderthal-Man really knows a lot about this particular topic, but to be fair, I barely know more than the average bear. Even though I get why people would argue against this, I really do wish it was being done with more respect, since it is essentially just religious belief, but yeah