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Mutatio Constantism The ideal form of government

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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:02 pm

One more comment:
Mutatio Constantism

The Byzantines approve of this. I would also say they went close to this arrangement. The Roman Empire of 1204 is very different from the Roman Empire of 27 BC.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:09 pm

Witiland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Let's stop beating around the bush: it's just pragmatism. There is no real substance here to make it a different ideology.

Yes but if pragmatism was a government, now what exactly does pragmatism believe?

Pragmatism can't be an ideology proper. It's just thinking of or dealing with problems in a practical way, rather than using theory or abstract principles. Since it has no theory, it can't be ideology as ideology needs some theoretical underpinnings. In and of itself, pragmatism has neither theory or abstract principles, it's just a way of acting. By the same token, I'm failing to see the theory that underpins the concept you yourself are putting forward. All I'm seeing is: the world changes, so governments should change with it. That isn't an ideology.
Last edited by The New California Republic on Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:17 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Witiland wrote:Yes but if pragmatism was a government, now what exactly does pragmatism believe?

Pragmatism can't be an ideology proper. It's just thinking of or dealing with problems in a practical way, rather than using theory or abstract principles. Since it has no theory, it can't be ideology as ideology needs some theoretical underpinnings. In and of itself, pragmatism has neither theory or abstract principles, it's just a way of acting. By the same token, I'm failing to see the theory that underpins the concept you yourself are putting forward. All I'm seeing is: the world changes, so governments should change with it. That isn't an ideology.



However so rarely is there a government system that accepts this change per say. Every Ideology and its believers puts out the false narrative of always being correct (or in best case the best). Yes I understand that since the world changes government should change is not an ideology however this is so much more. First of all there is no government that voluntarily encourages the change in ideology. Look in America, instead of pushing for the most useful idea's at the time, its pushing for their ideology. So my ideology rejects this and says that the government should have one ideology, one that is not constant. Look at a chameleon. It is still a chameleon whether its blue green red. But it looks different to fit in and therefore make use of it. In same way government should voluntarily change... and that's why this is an ideology since life without ideology like water without oxygen, impossible. Anyways if one may not consider it ideology it is religion ... why you ask? Well religion is this either a, the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.,b a particular system of faith and worship., a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.. I will use definitions b and c. See ideology follows a certain set of rules and principles just as one of the definition of religion states.
Last edited by Witiland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby United Dependencies » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Let's stop beating around the bush: it's just pragmatism. There is no real substance here to make it a different ideology.

Just be glad it's not pragmatarianism.

He he he

Is that the poster who keeps advocating that we all allocate our tax dollars (or whatever) based on how much we like something? Always coming in here and always getting shut down by Galloism?
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:34 pm

Witiland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Pragmatism can't be an ideology proper. It's just thinking of or dealing with problems in a practical way, rather than using theory or abstract principles. Since it has no theory, it can't be ideology as ideology needs some theoretical underpinnings. In and of itself, pragmatism has neither theory or abstract principles, it's just a way of acting. By the same token, I'm failing to see the theory that underpins the concept you yourself are putting forward. All I'm seeing is: the world changes, so governments should change with it. That isn't an ideology.



However so rarely is there a government system that accepts this change per say. Every Ideology and its believers puts out the false narrative of always being correct (or in best case the best). Yes I understand that since the world changes government should change is not an ideology however this is so much more. First of all there is no government that voluntarily encourages the change in ideology.

And there is unlikely to ever be such a suicidal government that actively wishes its own demise through a total ideological change.

Witiland wrote:Look in America, instead of pushing for the most useful idea's at the time, its pushing for their ideology. So my ideology rejects this and says that the government should have one ideology, one that is not constant.

You can say it all you want, it won't happen. It's just an instruction for a government to commit suicide, it isn't an ideology.

Witiland wrote:Look at a chameleon. It is still a chameleon whether its blue green red. But it looks different to fit in and therefore make use of it. In same way government should voluntarily change... and that's why this is an ideology since life without ideology like water without oxygen, impossible.

That explanation makes no sense, and does nothing to show that this...whatever this is...that you are proposing constitutes an ideology.

Witiland wrote: Anyways if one may not consider it ideology it is religion ... why you ask? Well religion is this either a, the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.,b a particular system of faith and worship., a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.. I will use definitions b and c. See ideology follows a certain set of rules and principles just as one of the definition of religion states.

It's certainly not a religion either.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:38 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Witiland wrote:

However so rarely is there a government system that accepts this change per say. Every Ideology and its believers puts out the false narrative of always being correct (or in best case the best). Yes I understand that since the world changes government should change is not an ideology however this is so much more. First of all there is no government that voluntarily encourages the change in ideology.

And there is unlikely to ever be such a suicidal government that actively wishes its own demise through a total ideological change.

Witiland wrote:Look in America, instead of pushing for the most useful idea's at the time, its pushing for their ideology. So my ideology rejects this and says that the government should have one ideology, one that is not constant.

You can say it all you want, it won't happen. It's just an instruction for a government to commit suicide, it isn't an ideology.

Witiland wrote:Look at a chameleon. It is still a chameleon whether its blue green red. But it looks different to fit in and therefore make use of it. In same way government should voluntarily change... and that's why this is an ideology since life without ideology like water without oxygen, impossible.

That explanation makes no sense, and does nothing to show that this...whatever this is...that you are proposing constitutes an ideology.

Witiland wrote: Anyways if one may not consider it ideology it is religion ... why you ask? Well religion is this either a, the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.,b a particular system of faith and worship., a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.. I will use definitions b and c. See ideology follows a certain set of rules and principles just as one of the definition of religion states.

It's certainly not a religion either.



Of course one can say democracy is not a ideology since the beginning of times people used to decide things as a group and is instead just common sense and that person would be right and wrong. For what you say is opinion and is your impetration of the world. I respect your views, however what you say is not fact but opinion just as what i say is opinion as well. I mean what does everybody else think?
Last edited by Witiland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:56 pm

Witiland wrote:Of course one can say democracy is not a ideology since the beginning of times people used to decide things as a group and is instead just common sense and that person would be right and wrong.

No not really.

Witiland wrote:For what you say is opinion and is your impetration of the world. I respect your views, however what you say is not fact but opinion just as what i say is opinion as well.

Sorry, but what I'm saying is actually based on fact.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Witiland
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:59 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Witiland wrote:Of course one can say democracy is not a ideology since the beginning of times people used to decide things as a group and is instead just common sense and that person would be right and wrong.

No not really.

Witiland wrote:For what you say is opinion and is your impetration of the world. I respect your views, however what you say is not fact but opinion just as what i say is opinion as well.

Sorry, but what I'm saying is actually based on fact.



Who are you to say what's fact and what's opinion? One can say "the USA is the best country" is a fact, which in reality is opinion to others. So i would respectfully disagree with you....
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:01 pm

Witiland wrote:Who are you to say what's fact and what's opinion? One can say "the USA is the best country" is a fact, which in reality is opinion to others. So i would respectfully disagree with you....

So instead of actually addressing what I'm saying you have resorted to "that's just your opinion". Alright man, have it your way.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby Parxland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:12 pm

Witiland wrote:When was the last time a government lasted forever? Never... every government usually ends (although sometimes not I'll say why later) in violence, blood, and gory revolutions. Why though? Well if one looks carefully at all of history, the most violent revolutions happened in governments that refused to one appeal to the needs of the people which leads to two substantially change how they run things. Therefore the only way to advance and move on was to kill murder and destroy. However imagine how much better it would be if the Tsar appealed to the demands of his people, or if King George III did not tax the colonies? I believe then as Thomas Jefferson put it "“God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion." How about this let me put in in these terms. Have you ever gone to school and right when you entered the classroom realized you forgot top study for the test today? How good did you do? Most likely terrible. In the same way many ideologies (actually all that i know of) say that changing to something else is bad. See ideologies are too strict and that's why they fail so badly. A successful government is one that changes physically politically and economically. However while there should be basic values such as human rights, the government must still change according to the times and needs of people. You cannot be surprised by a revolution if you the government started it...

So here is the creation (or revival if it already existed) of would I assume to be a new formal ideology that combines all the ideologies. I plan to formulate my ideas in a book, so I can spread my ideas. What do you think about Mutatio Constantism?


Seems like you got a decent head on your shoulders. You're not linguistic like armchair politicians or preachy like communists/fascists are. Good luck, I guess.
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Postby Parxland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:17 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Witiland wrote:Of course there are certain certain restriction on Mutataion Constantism one in rejecting Nazism but not rejecting fascism as some forms of Fascism is not racist as Nazism is usually is....

lolwut.


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Witiland
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:30 pm

Parxland wrote:
Witiland wrote:When was the last time a government lasted forever? Never... every government usually ends (although sometimes not I'll say why later) in violence, blood, and gory revolutions. Why though? Well if one looks carefully at all of history, the most violent revolutions happened in governments that refused to one appeal to the needs of the people which leads to two substantially change how they run things. Therefore the only way to advance and move on was to kill murder and destroy. However imagine how much better it would be if the Tsar appealed to the demands of his people, or if King George III did not tax the colonies? I believe then as Thomas Jefferson put it "“God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion." How about this let me put in in these terms. Have you ever gone to school and right when you entered the classroom realized you forgot top study for the test today? How good did you do? Most likely terrible. In the same way many ideologies (actually all that i know of) say that changing to something else is bad. See ideologies are too strict and that's why they fail so badly. A successful government is one that changes physically politically and economically. However while there should be basic values such as human rights, the government must still change according to the times and needs of people. You cannot be surprised by a revolution if you the government started it...

So here is the creation (or revival if it already existed) of would I assume to be a new formal ideology that combines all the ideologies. I plan to formulate my ideas in a book, so I can spread my ideas. What do you think about Mutatio Constantism?


Seems like you got a decent head on your shoulders. You're not linguistic like armchair politicians or preachy like communists/fascists are. Good luck, I guess.


Ah thanks, its important to not come off as aggressive but to not come back as too complex. Its nice to hear a compliment about my ideas and a appreciation for it!
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Postby Parxland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Witiland wrote:
Parxland wrote:
Seems like you got a decent head on your shoulders. You're not linguistic like armchair politicians or preachy like communists/fascists are. Good luck, I guess.


Ah thanks, its important to not come off as aggressive but to not come back as too complex. Its nice to hear a compliment about my ideas and a appreciation for it!


This isn't the forum for it though. This website is basically a left-wing echo-chamber. Means that if you wield any idea right of center on a political compass, people like the dude with the fallout power fantasy will just brand you a generic white supremacist that kills people with laser beams shot through your eyes. Your best bet of doing that "Mutatio Constantism" is to make your own region. You won't do anything being in a feeder, they'll sooner kick you out than allow your spiel.
Last edited by Parxland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Diarcesia » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:41 pm

Parxland wrote:
Witiland wrote:
Ah thanks, its important to not come off as aggressive but to not come back as too complex. Its nice to hear a compliment about my ideas and a appreciation for it!


This isn't the forum for it though. This website is basically a left-wing echo-chamber. Means that if you wield any idea right of center on a political compass, people like the dude with the fallout power fantasy will just brand you a generic white supremacist that kills people with laser beams shot through your eyes. Your best bet of doing that "Mutatio Constantism" is to make your own region. You won't do anything being in a feeder, they'll sooner kick you out than allow your spiel.

Saiwania's existence tells me this is false.
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:44 pm

Parxland wrote:
Witiland wrote:
Ah thanks, its important to not come off as aggressive but to not come back as too complex. Its nice to hear a compliment about my ideas and a appreciation for it!


This isn't the forum for it though. This website is basically a left-wing echo-chamber. Means that if you wield any idea right of center on a political compass, people like the dude with the fallout power fantasy will just brand you a generic white supremacist that kills people with laser beams shot through your eyes. Your best bet of doing that "Mutatio Constantism" is to make your own region. You won't do anything being in a feeder, they'll sooner kick you out than allow your spiel.



Truth and before I came up with this idea, I was more on the left, however after coming up with the idea has made me centrist on a lot. sometimes The left can easily get offended by someone who is even centrist. I can see what you are saying...
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:58 pm

Witiland wrote:a new formal ideology that combines all the ideologies.

Witiland wrote:Of course there are certain certain restriction on Mutataion Constantism one in rejecting Nazism but not rejecting fascism as some forms of Fascism is not racist as Nazism is usually is....

well are you "combining all the ideologies" or aren't you lol
I plan to formulate my ideas in a book, so I can spread my ideas.

oh dear
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:58 pm

Parxland wrote:This isn't the forum for it though. This website is basically a left-wing echo-chamber.

Wrong.

Parxland wrote:Means that if you wield any idea right of center on a political compass, people like the dude with the fallout power fantasy [...]

...who?

Parxland wrote:Your best bet of doing that "Mutatio Constantism" is to make your own region. You won't do anything being in a feeder, they'll sooner kick you out than allow your spiel.

He isn't talking about regions, he's talking about trying to make an actual ideology.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:08 pm

If a government totally changes its ideology over time then is it even the same government? The Ship of Theseus is the elephant in the room. It totally undermines the concept that there is any continuity if all of its features have been swapped out for new parts. Arguing that it's the same through this fictitious "ideology" turns into an exercise of pure sophistry.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:18 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Witiland wrote:a new formal ideology that combines all the ideologies.

Witiland wrote:Of course there are certain certain restriction on Mutataion Constantism one in rejecting Nazism but not rejecting fascism as some forms of Fascism is not racist as Nazism is usually is....

well are you "combining all the ideologies" or aren't you lol
I plan to formulate my ideas in a book, so I can spread my ideas.

oh dear



I know it may sound dumb, but I feel it could work if implemented correctly. In fact anything can worked if used correctly....
Last edited by Witiland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Parxland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:21 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Witiland wrote:Of course there are certain certain restriction on Mutataion Constantism one in rejecting Nazism but not rejecting fascism as some forms of Fascism is not racist as Nazism is usually is....

well are you "combining all the ideologies" or aren't you lol


Image



The New California Republic wrote:Wrong.


Stop.

...who?


Nitpicking.




Parxland wrote:Your best bet of doing that "Mutatio Constantism" is to make your own region. You won't do anything being in a feeder, they'll sooner kick you out than allow your spiel.

He isn't talking about regions, he's talking about trying to make an actual ideology.[/quote]

No shit. And how have people gone about doing their own thing on NS if their current region wouldn't let them do it? Do you need a picture to help you understand this?
Last edited by Parxland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:22 pm

Witiland wrote:
Senkaku wrote:well are you "combining all the ideologies" or aren't you lol

oh dear

I know it may sound dumb, but I feel it could work if implemented correctly.

How can "combining all ideologies" while "excluding some" be "implemented correctly"? You are trying to square a circle.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:24 pm

Witiland wrote:
I know it may sound dumb, but I feel it could work if implemented correctly.

- every armchair teenage political theorist's last words
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pm

Parxland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Wrong.

Stop.

No.

Parxland wrote:
...who?

Nitpicking.

How is it?

Parxland wrote:No shit. And how have people gone about doing their own thing on NS if their current region wouldn't let them do it? Do you need a picture to help you understand this?

Why are you even discussing regions lol, this is a discussion in NSGeneral.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Postby Parxland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Witiland wrote:
I know it may sound dumb, but I feel it could work if implemented correctly.

- every armchair teenage political theorist's last words


They won't truly understand if you don't let them try. :lol:
Last edited by Parxland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Witiland
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Postby Witiland » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Witiland wrote:I know it may sound dumb, but I feel it could work if implemented correctly.

How can "combining all ideologies" while "excluding some" be "implemented correctly"? You are trying to square a circle.



Lets picture this you have a salad right? It has lettuce, eggs, croutons, maybe all the food groups right? But are you going to put ghost peppers in the salad , so someone who hates ghost peppers to eat the salad? In the same way Mutatio Constantism (or as others put it Constantist Pragmatism) is a salad of ideologies and Nazism is the ghost pepper.


Also Mutatio Constantism is based on changing from different sides of the political spectrum and Nazism isn't even the most extreme. In fact Fascism is and not all Fascists are racist.

At the end of the day, I do enjoy debate and intellectual discussion so I do appreciate voicing your beliefs (that i personally disagree with but that's ok) and I want all of you to know that I all respect you as human beings.
Last edited by Witiland on Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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