Hungary and Poland blocked EU recovery package (resolved)

[Loben III]

Just kick them out and accept America and Canada as member states when Biden gets inaugurated.

Problem solved.

Do you want civil war? Because that's how you get civil war. Biden being as Milquetoast as he is is probably the only reason he can squeak through unremarked despite all the evidence of fraud.

If he did something like trying to join the EU...

If we joined the EU it would piss off a lot of people.

It’s bad enough we have to share a half assed alliance with them, but the thought of sharing a political union? Disgusting.

[Jankau-Helmutsberg]

I guess they want to open up some field for negotiation, but the Polish government is pretty much on fire right now.

[SD_Film Artists]

I like my zero

Just kick them out and accept America and Canada as member states when Biden gets inaugurated.

Problem solved.

1. The US and Canada join the EU
2. The US holds the EU presidency (or whichever office it is which a nation controles for a few years, it can be hard to remember with all their bureaucracy)
3. Trump gets reelected.
4. ....
5. Profit.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Dogs in the manger.

[Endem]

I feel ashamed for the government of my own country ( Poland ) and would like to say that many Polish citizens probably disagree with the government on this

[The Alma Mater]

So.. I guess countries like the Netherlands and Germany should.. thank Hungary and Poland ?
Wow.

[Page]

When Brexit happened it seemed a lot of people thought it was bad news for the EU, and Brexit certainly did weaken the EU as any member state leaving would, but I'm starting to wonder if the EU would be more effective overall if it were a smaller union of states that shared common values. Perhaps Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Finland etc. should cut their losses. Let the illiberal states go. The alliance will be less of a military power and trade will be affected but at least it would be a meaningful one.

[The Alma Mater]

When Brexit happened it seemed a lot of people thought it was bad news for the EU, and Brexit certainly did weaken the EU as any member state leaving would, but I'm starting to wonder if the EU would be more effective overall if it were a smaller union of states that shared common values. Perhaps Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Finland etc. should cut their losses. Let the illiberal states go. The alliance will be less of a military power and trade will be affected but at least it would be a meaningful one.

Secretly the "frugal, let us work hard and becareful with our money" north and the "let us enjoy life and toss money everywhere" south divide is far, far bigger.

[Alvecia]

When Brexit happened it seemed a lot of people thought it was bad news for the EU, and Brexit certainly did weaken the EU as any member state leaving would, but I'm starting to wonder if the EU would be more effective overall if it were a smaller union of states that shared common values. Perhaps Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Finland etc. should cut their losses. Let the illiberal states go. The alliance will be less of a military power and trade will be affected but at least it would be a meaningful one.

Secretly the "frugal, let us work hard and becareful with our money" north and the "let us enjoy life and toss money everywhere" south divide is far, far bigger.

I mean, as with most things, the closer you look the more you'll find.

The EU states do have many shared values, but within it, those nations do value some things differently.
Similarly while that nation shares many values, within it, many cities and counties hold different values.
Within those cities, the various communities that make them up share different values.

[Ifreann]

Can we please kick Hungary and Poland out of the EU now?

[Dryicor]

I feel ashamed for the government of my own country ( Poland ) and would like to say that many Polish citizens probably disagree with the government on this

I should like to think so. But I have to say that this was to be expected of the current Polish and Hungarian Governments. Yet the EU is currently in a dilemma with the two countries.

This is the main reservation I have with the EU in a nutshell: one state can block anything from going through.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

[The Reformed American Republic]

I don't understand why many people on the right hold the opinion that a pandemic is not a big deal. It's like they blindly listen to Trump and made that a core part of their ideology.

[Salandriagado]

Just kick them out and accept America and Canada as member states when Biden gets inaugurated.

Problem solved.

Do you want civil war? Because that's how you get civil war. Biden being as Milquetoast as he is is probably the only reason he can squeak through unremarked despite all the evidence of fraud.

If he did something like trying to join the EU...

[Plzen]

Can we please kick Hungary and Poland out of the EU now?

I believe suspension of voting rights requires the unanimous agreement of all the other members, so Hungary and Poland can veto any sanctions on each other.

To make a more general point, this is what happens when you bind your democracy with provisions meant to disproportionately empower "minorities" - you get political paralysis on anything that there isn't consensus on.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The western European countries have been doing a lot of sabre-rattling about potentially withholding money from Hungary in future budgets if they don't make poltical concessions. Hungary and its ally Poland are reacting by rejecting budgetary items, presumably in the hope of some guarantee of ring fencing their money. It's an understandable reaction in normal political times, whether it's appropriate at a time of pandemic when economies across the continent need the support to prevent rising unemployment and poverty is a little dubious. On the other hand this is a predictable response to the rhetoric of the western Europeans so some fault perhaps lies on that side also for bad diplomacy.

[Ifreann]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

Only an American could think that European identity is fake but national identities of European nations, many of which were created from other nations and had wildly varying territories over history and from time to time ceased to exist, are real.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

Only an American could think that European identity is fake but national identities of European nations, many of which were created from other nations and had wildly varying territories over history and from time to time ceased to exist, are real.

Only an American? Poland and Hungary's governments would probably agree with what he wrote. I'm not saying it's a true statement, but don't blame being an American for an objectionable view.

[Ifreann]

Only an American could think that European identity is fake but national identities of European nations, many of which were created from other nations and had wildly varying territories over history and from time to time ceased to exist, are real.

Only an American? Poland and Hungary's governments would probably agree with what he wrote. I'm not saying it's a true statement, but don't blame being an American for an objectionable view.

Fair point, lots of Europeans also believe those obviously wrong things.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

Only an American could think that European identity is fake but national identities of European nations, many of which were created from other nations and had wildly varying territories over history and from time to time ceased to exist, are real.

Viktor Orban and everyone who voted for him is an American, yes

[Nakena]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

Europe a Nation, a Nation shall be

[Salus Maior]

Looks like this is just another front for the overall conflict between Hungary and Poland and the EU.

They're probably using this as a bargaining chip to get the rest of the EU to get their hands off of their domestic policy. And as someone who is opposed to the centralization the EU is trying to push, and believes that sovereign countries should have control over their own internal policies (within reason), I hope that the EU gets the message.

[Salus Maior]

Good. The EU needs to rot and die and the countries of Europe need to rediscover their heritage instead of this stupid artificial "European" identity

Europe a Nation, a Nation shall be

For being supposedly a single "nation", they sure are falling apart along national lines quite a bit.

[Kathol Rift]

"We will continue with consultations, but at a certain point in time, the Hungarians will have to show their cards on the table," the official said. "Otherwise we are in deep shit."

If nothing else, we do need to appreciate how candid this dude was. And Poland and Hungary are really enjoying acting up lately, it seems.

[Nakena]

Europe a Nation, a Nation shall be

For being supposedly a single "nation", they sure are falling apart along national lines quite a bit.

Funfact: The EU in its current form is also the by product by the (often trash-talked and unjustly blamed) Pan-Europe Union which was for many years led by the late Otto von Habsburg who also played a big role in opening the Iron Curtain from Hungary to Austria. He was also for many years member of the EU parliament. I do not believe the current course of the EU is something he had in mind though.