Should billionaires exist? 「Yes or No」

[Kowani]

According to this source, over 50% of people in the US worked for a very large corporation.

A large corporation doesn't imply bad management. A lot of petroleum companies, for instance, treat employees pretty well, including blue-collar menial laborers. It's dangerous work, but you get excellent compensation and are treated with a great deal of respect by management. Which is a sharp contrast with companies like Amazon.

while it is somewhat impossible to quantify the original claim (do we include underpaid workers in the third world? unlisted immigrant laborers? what counts as a good boss? how many workers must you mistreat to count as a bad boss? etc), the sheer prevalence of wage theft would indicate, at the very least, that good bosses are very rare

[Sanghyeok]

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

C'mon, Ko. Let me revive responsibility and wholesomeness. I just want to bake my neighbors a lovely key lime pie and feed people who think "age is just a number" to bears. :^)

As with all things, we must find balance. While I have no objection to creating a society where we as citizens are more willing to help one another, I would sooner drink tomato juice than live in one where we feel extreme obligations to others. One of the few parts I like about the US is it respects individualism and doesn't tell me "you must take care of this and that person because of this and that reason!". Of course, US individualism is far too much for me- I would prefer something like Canada or perhaps Italy.

[Kowani]

we can, in fact, prevent world hunger.
there are many reasons why we do not, and the existence of the profit motive in food production is only one of them

I don't get how people can see that food scarcity is no longer an issue and must be artificially maintained and that only those with money are being fed and see nothing wrong with the status quo.

while there is artifical scarcity, i would hesitate to put all the blame on the profit motive
things like wars, political borders, geography and local superstitions all bear some blame as well

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

C'mon, Ko. Let me revive responsibility and wholesomeness. I just want to bake my neighbors a lovely key lime pie and feed people who think "age is just a number" to bears. :^)

ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

[Odreria]

I would hesitate to blame 'liberalism' for all the problems society is facing, when we see a far more obvious culprit named modern capitalism.

liberalism, is, in fact, fundamentally intertwined with modern capitalism

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

Liberalism works the same effect on a community or society as it does to the brain of its host.

[Sanghyeok]

I don't get how people can see that food scarcity is no longer an issue and must be artificially maintained and that only those with money are being fed and see nothing wrong with the status quo.

while there is artifical scarcity, i would hesitate to put all the blame on the profit motive
things like wars, political borders, geography and local superstitions all bear some blame as well

C'mon, Ko. Let me revive responsibility and wholesomeness. I just want to bake my neighbors a lovely key lime pie and feed people who think "age is just a number" to bears. :^)

ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

Pie in general is terrible, why not cheesecake, or strawberry cake, or thousand-layer crepes?

[Sanghyeok]

I would hesitate to blame 'liberalism' for all the problems society is facing, when we see a far more obvious culprit named modern capitalism.

liberalism, is, in fact, fundamentally intertwined with modern capitalism

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

They may be intertwined to some extent, but I don't want to say liberalism (social or cultural) would be a problem if capitalism didn't exist.

[Fahran]

while it is somewhat impossible to quantify the original claim (do we include underpaid workers in the third world? unlisted immigrant laborers? what counts as a good boss? how many workers must you mistreat to count as a bad boss? etc), the sheer prevalence of wage theft would indicate, at the very least, that good bosses are very rare

I would include both groups honestly, and both are especially likely to be treated poorly given often lax legal protections and a general inability to effectively bargain collectively or unionize. While wage theft is a significant problem, I'm not sure it necessarily corroborrates the assertion that "good bosses" are rare. We'd have to test companies on a more broad basis to see what percentage of bosses/management were doing it to get concrete confirmation, and I suspect the data would probably under-report the phenomenon.

[Fahran]

ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

This is the most offensive opinion you've ever expressed.

Hm... how about chocolate fondue with fresh strawberries, apples, and home-made angel cake?

[Sanghyeok]

ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

This is the most offensive opinion you've ever expressed.

Hm... how about chocolate fondue with fresh strawberries, apples, and home-made angel cake?

Paired with first steep Darjeeling, with five spoons of sugar and milk added, served hot.

[Odreria]

I lost my appetite for sweets when I was drinking a ton of milk to gain weight, never got it all the way back.
The solution to obesity is mandatory milk drinking.

[Fahran]

As with all things, we must find balance. While I have no objection to creating a society where we as citizens are more willing to help one another, I would sooner drink tomato juice than live in one where we feel extreme obligations to others. One of the few parts I like about the US is it respects individualism and doesn't tell me "you must take care of this and that person because of this and that reason!". Of course, US individualism is far too much for me- I would prefer something like Canada or perhaps Italy.

The absence of a sense of responsibility to virtue or the broader community is entirely the reason capitalism becomes problematic, and it isn't confined to the economy. It can impact how we behave towards our family, towards our loved ones, towards those in need, towards the political community, towards neighbors, etc. I don't think you have to take this to a hive-mind extreme, of course, but a conscious accounting of rights as well as responsibilities is important for society to remain functional in the long-term. A lot of people are adamant about what they should be given but spare hardly a thought about what they should give - and recoil when they are asked to give much beyond a few thousand dollars.

[Fahran]

Paired with first steep Darjeeling, with five spoons of sugar and milk added, served hot.

I don't usually add sugar. I feel like that'd be much too sweet given milk chocolate, dark chocolate, milk, and a bunch of sweets dipped into it. My roomie loves it anyway.

[Kowani]

liberalism, is, in fact, fundamentally intertwined with modern capitalism

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

Liberalism works the same effect on a community or society as it does to the brain of its host.

go back to the rwdt discord

while there is artifical scarcity, i would hesitate to put all the blame on the profit motive
things like wars, political borders, geography and local superstitions all bear some blame as well


ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

Pie in general is terrible, why not cheesecake, or strawberry cake, or thousand-layer crepes?

well, that would be a good idea
so obviously, 'ran can't have them

liberalism, is, in fact, fundamentally intertwined with modern capitalism

while I do not agree with all of Fahran's point, (and definitely not with her solution), there is a point to be made about atomization promoted by modernity

They may be intertwined to some extent, but I don't want to say liberalism (social or cultural) would be a problem if capitalism didn't exist.

well. liberalism and capitalism are born out of the same general social pressures (oversimplifying, but a rapidly growing merchant class), so i am not sure i would feel comfortable saying one could exist without the other (at least as we know them)

while it is somewhat impossible to quantify the original claim (do we include underpaid workers in the third world? unlisted immigrant laborers? what counts as a good boss? how many workers must you mistreat to count as a bad boss? etc), the sheer prevalence of wage theft would indicate, at the very least, that good bosses are very rare

I would include both groups honestly, and both are especially likely to be treated poorly given often lax legal protections and a general inability to effectively bargain collectively or unionize. While wage theft is a significant problem, I'm not sure it necessarily corroborrates the assertion that "good bosses" are rare. We'd have to test companies on a more broad basis to see what percentage of bosses/management were doing it to get concrete confirmation, and I suspect the data would probably under-report the phenomenon.

well. if we include both of those groups, then i would feel relatively comfortable saying (even in the absence of data) that most (although workers do not, in fact, have a good boss, as those groups constitute a very large slice of the global workforce (though data in many of these countries will be spotty, due to a) as you mentioned, underreporting and b)manipulation of the data on actual numbers by state entities and unnaccountable multinationals)

[Sanghyeok]

Paired with first steep Darjeeling, with five spoons of sugar and milk added, served hot.

I don't usually add sugar. I feel like that'd be much too sweet given milk chocolate, dark chocolate, milk, and a bunch of sweets dipped into it. My roomie loves it anyway.

You're a pre-med student, right? Maybe you don't want to know what's in my diet...

[Sanghyeok]

Liberalism works the same effect on a community or society as it does to the brain of its host.

go back to the rwdt discord

I think they're an auth-left.

[Kowani]

ew, key lime pie

suggestion rejected

This is the most offensive opinion you've ever expressed.

Hm... how about chocolate fondue with fresh strawberries, apples, and home-made angel cake?

...do not tempt me
i cannot resist sweets

[Fahran]

You're a pre-med student, right? Maybe you don't want to know what's in my diet...

If you do, I will oppress you by force-feeding you healthy yet delicious alternative to the current rubbish you imbibe.

[Sanghyeok]

As with all things, we must find balance. While I have no objection to creating a society where we as citizens are more willing to help one another, I would sooner drink tomato juice than live in one where we feel extreme obligations to others. One of the few parts I like about the US is it respects individualism and doesn't tell me "you must take care of this and that person because of this and that reason!". Of course, US individualism is far too much for me- I would prefer something like Canada or perhaps Italy.

The absence of a sense of responsibility to virtue or the broader community is entirely the reason capitalism becomes problematic, and it isn't confined to the economy. It can impact how we behave towards our family, towards our loved ones, towards those in need, towards the political community, towards neighbors, etc. I don't think you have to take this to a hive-mind extreme, of course, but a conscious accounting of rights as well as responsibilities is important for society to remain functional in the long-term. A lot of people are adamant about what they should be given but spare hardly a thought about what they should give - and recoil when they are asked to give much beyond a few thousand dollars.

Of course, being part of society means you must have rights and responsibilities. One cannot be offered without another being fulfilled. What I am worried about is either extreme: while too much individualism is concerning, too much emphasis on "responsibility to virtue" is just as terrible.

I don't blame them when they are asked to give that much, though, given the median worker's income is barely five ten-thousands. Could be an interesting thread though, if someone wants to create one: charity or welfare state?

[Odreria]

You're a pre-med student, right? Maybe you don't want to know what's in my diet...

If you do, I will oppress you by force-feeding you healthy yet delicious alternative to the current rubbish you imbibe.

no simparemos

[Kowani]

go back to the rwdt discord

I think they're an auth-left.

you had to be there

The absence of a sense of responsibility to virtue or the broader community is entirely the reason capitalism becomes problematic, and it isn't confined to the economy. It can impact how we behave towards our family, towards our loved ones, towards those in need, towards the political community, towards neighbors, etc. I don't think you have to take this to a hive-mind extreme, of course, but a conscious accounting of rights as well as responsibilities is important for society to remain functional in the long-term. A lot of people are adamant about what they should be given but spare hardly a thought about what they should give - and recoil when they are asked to give much beyond a few thousand dollars.

Of course, being part of society means you must have rights and responsibilities. One cannot be offered without another being fulfilled. What I am worried about is either extreme: while too much individualism is concerning, too much emphasis on "responsibility to virtue" is just as terrible.

I don't blame them when they are asked to give that much, though, given the median worker's income is barely five ten-thousands. Could be an interesting thread though, if someone wants to create one: charity or welfare state?

well, as a societal function, charity doesn't work
so there's that out the window

[Sanghyeok]

I think they're an auth-left.

you had to be there

Of course, being part of society means you must have rights and responsibilities. One cannot be offered without another being fulfilled. What I am worried about is either extreme: while too much individualism is concerning, too much emphasis on "responsibility to virtue" is just as terrible.

I don't blame them when they are asked to give that much, though, given the median worker's income is barely five ten-thousands. Could be an interesting thread though, if someone wants to create one: charity or welfare state?

well, as a societal function, charity doesn't work
so there's that out the window

I think so too, but I also thought this thread wouldn't last 10 pages yet here we are.

[Kowani]

you had to be there

well, as a societal function, charity doesn't work
so there's that out the window

I think so too, but I also thought this thread wouldn't last 10 pages yet here we are.

when there is a terrible opinion, someone will hold it

[Sanghyeok]

You're a pre-med student, right? Maybe you don't want to know what's in my diet...

If you do, I will oppress you by force-feeding you healthy yet delicious alternative to the current rubbish you imbibe.

It's not rubbish, it's delicious and filled with glucose, an important ingredient for my body to function. Also, I do try to cook once in a while and I like to believe my curry and tempura are pretty good.

[Fahran]

It's not rubbish, it's delicious and filled with glucose, an important ingredient for my body to function. Also, I do try to cook once in a while and I like to believe my curry and tempura are pretty good.

I'm currently waging a jihad on fried food.

I'd ask about your spices and seasonings, but I don't want to treadjack any further.

[Sanghyeok]

It's not rubbish, it's delicious and filled with glucose, an important ingredient for my body to function. Also, I do try to cook once in a while and I like to believe my curry and tempura are pretty good.

I'm currently waging a jihad on fried food.

I'd ask about your spices and seasonings, but I don't want to treadjack any further.

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