Should billionaires exist? 「Yes or No」

[Sanghyeok]

You don't. Rich people become rich either from inheritance or from luck with a business. Many of the hardest workers are impoverished.

Many millionaires or billionaires become rich with a good idea and hard work.

Then they never contribute anything more and exploit others and a broken system to keep themselves in that position of wealth.

As I said before, I don't think people can become billionaires through just "hard work" without exploitation.

[Alcala-Cordel]

You don't. Rich people become rich either from inheritance or from luck with a business. Many of the hardest workers are impoverished.

Many millionaires or billionaires become rich with a good idea and hard work.

Then they never contribute anything more and exploit others and a broken system to keep themselves in that position of wealth.

That's kiiiiiiinda true, sometimes, though even still it's only luck that brings them forward. The vast majority of good ideas and hard work go unnoticed.

[The Emerald Legion]

No its not pure luck
You dont earn a good wage from pure luck, you work hard for it

And many people working harder than billionaires are still suffering below the poverty line. Billionaires don't become billionaires by simply working hard. Millionaires, possibly. Not so for billionaires, who depend on exploitation of workers to reach where they are.

Then they aren't working harder then Billionaires.

[Dominioan]

Many millionaires or billionaires become rich with a good idea and hard work.

Then they never contribute anything more and exploit others and a broken system to keep themselves in that position of wealth.

As I said before, I don't think people can become billionaires through just "hard work" without exploitation.

Yeah I know, but there is always some work involved.

Many millionaires or billionaires become rich with a good idea and hard work.

Then they never contribute anything more and exploit others and a broken system to keep themselves in that position of wealth.

That's true, though even still it's luck that brings them forward. The vast majority of good ideas and hard work go unnoticed.

True

[Sanghyeok]

And many people working harder than billionaires are still suffering below the poverty line. Billionaires don't become billionaires by simply working hard. Millionaires, possibly. Not so for billionaires, who depend on exploitation of workers to reach where they are.

Then they aren't working harder then Billionaires.

People working two jobs to support their family aren't working harder than someone who shouts orders and has their wealth managed by someone else? I somehow doubt your statement is true.

[Alcala-Cordel]

As I said before, I don't think people can become billionaires through just "hard work" without exploitation.

Yeah I know, but there is always some work involved.

Not with inheritance. Also clarified my above post.

[Dominioan]

Yeah I know, but there is always some work involved.

Not with inheritance.

Thats a good point. But Jeff Bezos is an example of a self made billionaire (or at least millionaire, then exploitation to billionaire), and there are lots of others as well.

And yes, luck is essential

[Sanghyeok]

Not with inheritance.

Thats a good point. But Jeff Bezos is an example of a self made billionaire (or at least millionaire, then exploitation to billionaire), and there are lots of others as well.

And yes, luck is essential

I can't believe there are people who idolise him and Musk. Like, seriously?

[Dominioan]

Thats a good point. But Jeff Bezos is an example of a self made billionaire (or at least millionaire, then exploitation to billionaire), and there are lots of others as well.

And yes, luck is essential

I can't believe there are people who idolise him and Musk. Like, seriously?

I don't idolize him. I'm just pointing out that his upbringing was not a rich one, yet he is also the richest person in the world

[Fahran]

And many people working harder than billionaires are still suffering below the poverty line. Billionaires don't become billionaires by simply working hard. Millionaires, possibly. Not so for billionaires, who depend on exploitation of workers to reach where they are.

It's not solely about working hard. The value of your work and resources matters a lot too, but, yes, being in the right place at the right time is absolutely a necessary component.

[The Emerald Legion]

Then they aren't working harder then Billionaires.

People working two jobs to support their family aren't working harder than someone who shouts orders and has their wealth managed by someone else? I somehow doubt your statement is true.

Well, compare the amount of work that gets done. Bezos has shit delivered to millions of people's doors every day all over the world.

Someone who's barely keeping afloat working two jobs is what? Making a couple of hundred big macs on a good day, and checking out another hundred people at the grocery store?

Just because it's hard on you doesn't mean you're working harder. Give me a bulldozer and you a shovel and I'll be working harder than you at digging a trench, even though I'm not exerting myself all that much.

[New haven america]

People working two jobs to support their family aren't working harder than someone who shouts orders and has their wealth managed by someone else? I somehow doubt your statement is true.

Well, compare the amount of work that gets done. Bezos has shit delivered to millions of people's doors every day all over the world.

Someone who's barely keeping afloat working two jobs is what? Making a couple of hundred big macs on a good day, and checking out another hundred people at the grocery store?

Just because it's hard on you doesn't mean you're working harder. Give me a bulldozer and you a shovel and I'll be working harder than you at digging a trench, even though I'm not exerting myself all that much.

Bezos isn't personally delivering those packages Emerald.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I can't believe there are people who idolise him and Musk. Like, seriously?

I don't idolize him. I'm just pointing out that his upbringing was not a rich one, yet he is also the richest person in the world

I mean, Elon Musk's family was already rich off an apartheid emerald mine. Bresides that, how self-made are you if it's luck and exploitation that gets you there?

[The Emerald Legion]

Well, compare the amount of work that gets done. Bezos has shit delivered to millions of people's doors every day all over the world.

Someone who's barely keeping afloat working two jobs is what? Making a couple of hundred big macs on a good day, and checking out another hundred people at the grocery store?

Just because it's hard on you doesn't mean you're working harder. Give me a bulldozer and you a shovel and I'll be working harder than you at digging a trench, even though I'm not exerting myself all that much.

Bezos isn't personally delivering those packages Emerald.

He doesn't have to. It's still his organization built by him and run by him who gets it done. He made it, he gets the overall credit.

[Witiland]

For as long as the way to become rich is unrestricted and the distribution of wealth is required, I am fine with billionaires existing.

The way to become rich IS restricted though. Someone with the skills and work history to be a plumber won't become rich by working 120 hour weeks for the rest of their life. Maybe that makes them a multi-millionaire, but not a billionaire.

As long as there are narrow ways open for a very few people to become rich, eg inheritance and investment, it is harder for ordinary workers to get rich at all. The more money (whatever definition) the super-rich have, the less there is for everyone else.

To become a millionaire you must have a career. To become a billionaire you must invest in capital...

[New haven america]

Bezos isn't personally delivering those packages Emerald.

He doesn't have to. It's still his organization built by him and run by him who gets it done. He made it, he gets the overall credit.

Bezos spends most of his time lounging around his billion dollar mansion, and before his divorce spent most of his time in another one of his mansions cheating on his wife.

So no, unless he's actually the one packaging, managing, and delivering those packages, he doesn't get credit. Also, he doesn't pay taxes. He makes money off of your taxes due to the rich being the main beneficiaries of government support.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Thats a good point. But Jeff Bezos is an example of a self made billionaire (or at least millionaire, then exploitation to billionaire), and there are lots of others as well.

And yes, luck is essential

I can't believe there are people who idolise him and Musk. Like, seriously?

I know, right? So many great people to idolize and they pick Bezos and Musk.

Bezos isn't personally delivering those packages Emerald.

He doesn't have to. It's still his organization built by him and run by him who gets it done. He made it, he gets the overall credit.

Jeff Bezos would only have earned the money he has if he personally ran the warehouses, packaged and delivered all items, upkept the website and all its assets, did all behind-the-scenes planning and marketing, fought his own lawsuits, and paid taxes. If he has time to chill in mansions and megayachts while he cheats on his wife after all that he would have earned the money, though he'd still be an asshole for cheating on his wife.

[The Emerald Legion]

He doesn't have to. It's still his organization built by him and run by him who gets it done. He made it, he gets the overall credit.

Bezos spends most of his time lounging around his billion dollar mansion, and before his divorce spent most of his time in another one of his mansions cheating on his wife.

So no, unless he's actually the one packaging, managing, and delivering those packages, he doesn't get credit. Also, he doesn't pay taxes. He makes money off of your taxes due to the rich being the main beneficiaries of government support.

Not really no. By taking his money for their time, the labor his employees perform is his he can sit on his ass all day long, and it's still his labor that he bought and paid for that got all that done.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Bezos spends most of his time lounging around his billion dollar mansion, and before his divorce spent most of his time in another one of his mansions cheating on his wife.

So no, unless he's actually the one packaging, managing, and delivering those packages, he doesn't get credit. Also, he doesn't pay taxes. He makes money off of your taxes due to the rich being the main beneficiaries of government support.

Not really no. By taking his money for their time, the labor his employees perform is his he can sit on his ass all day long, and it's still his labor that he bought and paid for that got all that done.

So much for hard work. Are you really okay with this parasitism?

[The Emerald Legion]

Not really no. By taking his money for their time, the labor his employees perform is his he can sit on his ass all day long, and it's still his labor that he bought and paid for that got all that done.

So much for hard work. Are you really okay with this parasitism?

How is it parasitism? It's mutual exchange. He exchanges his money, for their time and labor. At any point in the relationship, they could say 'Nah, fuck you Bezos, I want to work somewhere else.' And stop providing him with their time and labor, and then he'll stop giving them money and both will go their separate ways.

[Sanghyeok]

I can't believe there are people who idolise him and Musk. Like, seriously?

I don't idolize him. I'm just pointing out that his upbringing was not a rich one, yet he is also the richest person in the world

I wasn't trying to attack you, sorry.

[New haven america]

Bezos spends most of his time lounging around his billion dollar mansion, and before his divorce spent most of his time in another one of his mansions cheating on his wife.

So no, unless he's actually the one packaging, managing, and delivering those packages, he doesn't get credit. Also, he doesn't pay taxes. He makes money off of your taxes due to the rich being the main beneficiaries of government support.

Not really no. By taking his money for their time, the labor his employees perform is his he can sit on his ass all day long, and it's still his labor that he bought and paid for that got all that done.

I see you don't know how labor works. Do you have a job?

Oh, and I like how you ignore the fact that Bezos makes money off of government assistance, as do the majority of rich people. How is it taxes is legalized theft when a city wants to pave roads, but hard earned cash when the Feds throw your money at billionaires?

[New haven america]

So much for hard work. Are you really okay with this parasitism?

How is it parasitism? It's mutual exchange. He exchanges his money, for their time and labor. At any point in the relationship, they could say 'Nah, fuck you Bezos, I want to work somewhere else.' And stop providing him with their time and labor, and then he'll stop giving them money and both will go their separate ways.

Because billionaires hoard money and don't put it back into the system, thus causing the consumer based economy to stagnate because the actual consumers who drive the economy can't afford anything because there's no money to buy things with circulating around. It's a positive feedback loop. (Course the government could just starting printing more money, but that would lead to things like the Weimar Republic's unbelievable inflation)

You know, for a supposed capitalist, how do you not know shit that's in Econ 101?

[Fahran]

Jeff Bezos would only have earned the money he has if he personally ran the warehouses, packaged and delivered all items, upkept the website and all its assets, did all behind-the-scenes planning and marketing, fought his own lawsuits, and paid taxes.

He is in charge of management in its totality and essentially built Amazon with starting capital and early labor, which added and continues to add a lot of value. You don't have to be a menial laborer or immediate management to add substantial value. We have pretty ample evidence of what poor top-level management can do to tank the value of a corporation and its products and services.

If he has time to chill in mansions and megayachts while he cheats on his wife after all that he would have earned the money, though he'd still be an asshole for cheating on his wife.

I mean he did earn the money according to capitalist and liberal logic. If we were operating under socialist logic, he might even have earned it when Amazon was still small. The issue isn't that he didn't put in labor. It's that socialists, on the whole, dislike upper-level management, the concentration of capital, etc. on the whole. And thus are often dismissive of how those things add value. And hence this line of argumentation.

[Sanghyeok]

So much for hard work. Are you really okay with this parasitism?

How is it parasitism? It's mutual exchange. He exchanges his money, for their time and labor. At any point in the relationship, they could say 'Nah, fuck you Bezos, I want to work somewhere else.' And stop providing him with their time and labor, and then he'll stop giving them money and both will go their separate ways.

They would love to leave but can't, because other companies are also only offering the same. It would be bad enough if only Amazon was doing this, but as you and I both know terrible working conditions and poor pay tend to be the norm.