2020 US General Election Thread XIII: Nocturne

[Diarcesia]

I'm stopping you right there. Much of eastern europe today is as anti democratic as can be and its beyond dishonest to claim Reagan liberated them in any way.

Besides, Reagan backed guys like the Mujahideen and Apartheid south africa. He didn't believe in freedom. He believed in capitalism. He'd sell everyone here into slavery to protect capitalism. Ronald Reagan was a tyrant and he supported terrorism and violence worldwide just as much as the communists did.

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Well, in the 90s Eastern European countries were very optimistic about the new democracy. By the turn of the millennium, however, a wave of authoritarianism began to resurface.

My point is that Reagan wasn't the liberator some claim. In fact, people like him actively crushed democracy when it stood in the way of the unrestrained free market.

As a foreigner I long since stopped deriding Reagan. "Bad for democracy around the world" means "good for America" to some people. The more you pound Reagan on foreign affairs (even Iran/Contra) the greater Reagan becomes in their eyes.

I remember they used to boast about "Reagan won the Cold War and made Russia democratic!" but now it's just "Reagan ended the Cold War ... grumble, grumble I kind of miss it actually, can we start another one?"

[Tarsonis]

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

That depends on what metric of freedom you are using.

not being killed for refusing to go along with land reforms and not getting back bagged by secret police never to he seen again for "non communist sympathies" is as good a place to start as any.

[Kowani]

I'm stopping you right there. Much of eastern europe today is as anti democratic as can be and its beyond dishonest to claim Reagan liberated them in any way.

Besides, Reagan backed guys like the Mujahideen and Apartheid south africa. He didn't believe in freedom. He believed in capitalism. He'd sell everyone here into slavery to protect capitalism. Ronald Reagan was a tyrant and he supported terrorism and violence worldwide just as much as the communists did.

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Didn’t Reagan support Pinochet

[Picairn]

not being killed for refusing to go along with land reforms and not getting back bagged by secret police never to he seen again for "non communist sympathies" is as good a place to start as any.

Then you'll have to expand to the fact that the standards of living in Eastern European countries have been deteriorating for decades. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/10/east-o24.html

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I'd take Ronald Reagan over Donald Trump any fucking day of the week.

Polls of experts are rather meaningless, when the President they're asked about is still in office. However ...

So far President Trump is the worst President. In history.

He could still nail down last place for good, though. You know he wants it.

[Greater Miami Shores]

these are Facts, as many here love to say. GMS.

They only say that because they know it annoys you.

Oh I know they say Facts because they know it annoys me. To an extent it does seem to annoy me, but I answer them back strongly with respect and no actionable personal and political insults. They say they don't understand my posts, they say my English not very good, I answer them back, my English not very good, lol.

We do wear the personal and political insults, like, deplorables, chumps, right wing nut jobs, neo cons in a negative sense, liars and evil, with Pride and Honor, not because we are. Because they give us the tittles.

As the true story I have posted about, the Euro American Family I talked too at a nearby restaurant after a Trump rally, we all agreed with my statement above.

They cant seem to understand or don't want to understand this logical logic, but it is not our problem, what matter is we understand it.

I speak for all of US, the millions of Americans, my Family and Friends, Euro Americans in the Family, the Dogs and Cats in the Family. We are Pro Republican Trump supporters, Proud, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens GMS.

[Tarsonis]

not being killed for refusing to go along with land reforms and not getting back bagged by secret police never to he seen again for "non communist sympathies" is as good a place to start as any.

Then you'll have to expand to the fact that the standards of living in Eastern European countries have been deteriorating for decades. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/10/east-o24.html

cool now give me a source that isn't 11 years old and from blatant socialist propaganda.

[San Lumen]

They only say that because they know it annoys you.

Oh I know they say Facts because they know it annoys me. To an extent it does seem to annoy me, but I answer them back strongly with respect and no actionable personal and political insults. They say they don't understand my posts, they say my English not very good, I answer them back, my English not very good, lol.

We do wear the personal and political insults, like, deplorables, chumps, right wing nut jobs, neo cons in a negative sense, liars and evil, with Pride and Honor,

As the true story I have posted about, the Euro American Family I talked too at a nearby restaurant after a Trump rally, we all agreed with my statement above.

I speak for all of US, the millions of Americans, my Family and Friends, Euro Americans in the Family, the Dogs and Cats in the Family. We are Proud, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens GMS.

Do you not understand why people are frustrated with you posting the same thing over and over against without listening to what they are saying? Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between fact and opinion?

I will try to explain it one final time. Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska is a fact. Omaha has a low crime and homeless rate because it has a Republican mayor is an opinion.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Oh I know they say Facts because they know it annoys me. To an extent it does seem to annoy me, but I answer them back strongly with respect and no actionable personal and political insults. They say they don't understand my posts, they say my English not very good, I answer them back, my English not very good, lol.

We do wear the personal and political insults, like, deplorables, chumps, right wing nut jobs, neo cons in a negative sense, liars and evil, with Pride and Honor,

As the true story I have posted about, the Euro American Family I talked too at a nearby restaurant after a Trump rally, we all agreed with my statement above.

I speak for all of US, the millions of Americans, my Family and Friends, Euro Americans in the Family, the Dogs and Cats in the Family. We are Proud, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens GMS.

Do you not understand why people are frustrated with you posting the same thing over and over against without listening to what they are saying? Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between fact and opinion?

I will try to explain it one final time. Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska is a fact. Omaha has a low crime and homeless rate because it has a Republican mayor is an opinion.

If Persons would stop saying Facts every time we strongly disagree with each other on Republican President Trump, Republicans and all issues, I would never have to repeat myself like the broken record I am.

You were the one who originally posted too me many times, I am entitled to my own opinions but not to my own facts. My personal favorite and a classic. A certain leftist person posted to me, we have the Facts on our side. Yet you say I don't understand the difference between Facts and Opinions. What a coincidence they always agree with those who strongly disagree with me and us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. Those opinions and Facts never agree with us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. GMS.

[Diarcesia]

Do you not understand why people are frustrated with you posting the same thing over and over against without listening to what they are saying? Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between fact and opinion?

I will try to explain it one final time. Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska is a fact. Omaha has a low crime and homeless rate because it has a Republican mayor is an opinion.

If Persons would stop saying Facts every time we strongly disagree with each other on Republican President Trump, Republicans and all issues, I would never have to repeat myself like the broken record I am.

You were the one who originally posted too me many times, I am entitled to my own opinions but not to my own facts. My personal favorite and a classic. A certain leftist person posted to me, we have the Facts on our side. Yet you say I don't understand the difference between Facts and Opinions. What a coincidence they always agree with those who strongly disagree with me and us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. Those opinions and Facts never agree with us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. GMS.

If I understood it correctly, you're talking about people who say "reality has a liberal bias". That statement is an opinion from liberals.

[San Lumen]

Do you not understand why people are frustrated with you posting the same thing over and over against without listening to what they are saying? Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between fact and opinion?

I will try to explain it one final time. Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska is a fact. Omaha has a low crime and homeless rate because it has a Republican mayor is an opinion.

If Persons would stop saying Facts every time we strongly disagree with each other on Republican President Trump, Republicans and all issues, I would never have to repeat myself like the broken record I am.

You were the one who originally posted too me many times, I am entitled to my own opinions but not to my own facts. My personal favorite and a classic. A certain leftist person posted to me, we have the Facts on our side. Yet you say I don't understand the difference between Facts and Opinions. What a coincidence they always agree with those who strongly disagree with me and us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. Those opinions and Facts never agree with us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. GMS.

You clearly didnt read a word I said and would rather post the same spam over and over again as if its on auto reply.

This cult like thinking is the problem with Trumpism. Trump could say the Earth is flat and you'd find a way to defend it.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I give up, but of course it is just a figure of speech lol. GMS.

[San Lumen]

I give up, but of course it is just a figure of speech lol. GMS.

How about you debate and engage what someone says instead of using the same canned answers over and over again?

[Greater Miami Shores]

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

I third this post above, GMS.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Do you not understand why people are frustrated with you posting the same thing over and over against without listening to what they are saying? Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between fact and opinion?

I will try to explain it one final time. Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska is a fact. Omaha has a low crime and homeless rate because it has a Republican mayor is an opinion.

If Persons would stop saying Facts every time we strongly disagree with each other on Republican President Trump, Republicans and all issues, I would never have to repeat myself like the broken record I am.

You were the one who originally posted too me many times, I am entitled to my own opinions but not to my own facts. My personal favorite and a classic. A certain leftist person posted to me, we have the Facts on our side. Yet you say I don't understand the difference between Facts and Opinions. What a coincidence they always agree with those who strongly disagree with me and us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. Those opinions and Facts never agree with us Republican Trump supporters, what a coincidence. GMS.

Practically speaking, you tend to form your own opinion based on what it strongly seems you accept as Facts. So you'll debate the wording, or the emotional import, but not the hidden "fact" because it's above dispute to you.

For instance, you refuse to say that Biden won the election. You refuse to even say "probably". You're treating that as a Fact and not a matter of opinion. And then from things you link to as "just news" we see opinions of Trump WON the election. It's hard not to be led to the conclusion that behind your opinions is a "fact" which you refuse to own up to, because you don't want to be dissuaded from it.

Biden won the election. This is an opinion. It is not a fact, and will only become a fairly strong fact when the Electoral College affirms it, and a completely iron-clad fact when Biden is sworn in.

It's my opinion that Biden won the election. What do you say to that?

[Picairn]

cool now give me a source that isn't 11 years old and from blatant socialist propaganda.

Didn't realize a World Bank report was "blatant socialist propaganda", but here you go: A 2019 report on population decline in Eastern European countries noted that one of the reasons for depopulation was economic stagnation and poverty. https://globalriskinsights.com/2019/10/ ... rn-europe/

Economic stagnation is part of the story of mass emigration from Eastern Europe. In Bulgaria, the demographic decline is most pronounced in the rural areas, particularly in the north-west, which is the poorest region of the poorest country in the EU. The average salary in Bulgaria is €575 a month, and the average monthly pension is €190, both of these are the lowest in the European Union. Similarly, Latvia’s poorest region, Latgale, sees the greatest population shortfall. Here the average monthly wage is only €670 a month. The respective capitals, Sofia and Riga are slowly growing but rural populations are continually decimated. Lower wages, combined with better living standards elsewhere, drive labour westwards towards Germany, France and the U.K. as people seek better opportunities for themselves and their families. Often they go to live with family members already settled further west making such a transition easier.

Low birth rates are a hallmark of numerous European countries, but many of the former Soviet states lack the tools to correct the problems arising from population decline. Birth rates in eastern Europe sharply dropped in the 1990s during the post-Soviet era of political and economic upheaval. Because of this, Lithuania is suffering a lingering shortage of working-age adults in its workforce. Consequently, the number of 18 year-olds has collapsed by 33% since 2011. UN predictions believe Lithuania will have the same number of working-age adults in 2030 as it did in 1950. Meanwhile, population shrinkage has been blamed as a causal factor in increased mortality, due to the ‘brain-drain’ effect. Romania lost half of its qualified doctors between 2009-2015 who sought better wages further west. This has been attributed to both higher mortality and infant mortality rates in the country. For the population to remain constant, women need to have 2.1 children, however, in numerous eastern European states, the level is far lower, hovering between 1.5-1.7. Low Immigration, combined with low fecundity and higher mortality rates make for the perfect cocktail of population shrinkage.

Apart from the causing ruptures in the social fabric of the state, population decline is causing numerous harmful economic consequences which are tricky to fully mitigate. Emigrants tend to be younger, first time workers in seek of better wages. They also leave with their children or before childbirth, meaning the median population age increases, and the adult population of a working-age diminishes.

Edit: I found the original World Bank report: https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bit ... sAllowed=y

[Greater Miami Shores]

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

I withdraw this double post by accident. It is below this post that has been quoted by S L. GMS.

[Greater Miami Shores]

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

Since Karelia's Post, I have been listening while posting to many of Republican President Ronald Reagan's awesome speeches. The original Make America Great Again President. The Greatest American President of The USA ever.

Republican President Trump the second Greatest American President of The USA ever. According to many I have talked too.

It is on my new sig, I Proudly sign myself and speak for millions of us.

We are Proud Pro Republican President Trump, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens. GMS.

[Tarsonis]

People are far freerer under capitalism than they ever were under communists.

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

since communism gives absolutely zero of either Still winning that argument.

[San Lumen]

Economic freedom ≠ Personal freedom

Since Karelia's Post, I have been listening why posting to many of Republican President Ronald Reagan's awesome speeches. The original Make America Great Again President. The Greatest American President of The USA ever.

Republican President Trump the second Greatest American President of The USA ever. According to many I have talked too.

It is on my new sig, I Proudly sign myself and speak for millions of us.

We are Proud Pro Republican President Trump, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens. GMS.

Trump will not be President come January 20th. You lost. Why can;'t you accept this?

[Greater Miami Shores]

Since Karelia's Post, I have been listening why posting to many of Republican President Ronald Reagan's awesome speeches. The original Make America Great Again President. The Greatest American President of The USA ever.

Republican President Trump the second Greatest American President of The USA ever. According to many I have talked too.

It is on my new sig, I Proudly sign myself and speak for millions of us.

We are Proud Pro Republican President Trump, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens. GMS.

Trump will not be President come January 20th. You lost. Why can;'t you accept this?

S L, I have already answered your question in details a few times, but you still keep asking the same or similar question. The last answer I gave is the most anyone of you will ever get from me. GMS.

[Tarsonis]

Since Karelia's Post, I have been listening why posting to many of Republican President Ronald Reagan's awesome speeches. The original Make America Great Again President. The Greatest American President of The USA ever.

Republican President Trump the second Greatest American President of The USA ever. According to many I have talked too.

It is on my new sig, I Proudly sign myself and speak for millions of us.

We are Proud Pro Republican President Trump, Pro USA, USA, USA, American Patriot Citizens. GMS.

Trump will not be President come January 20th. You lost. Why can;'t you accept this?

you can't reason with someone who wilfully and knowing embraces propaganda as fact.

[Rusozak]

Trump will not be President come January 20th. You lost. Why can;'t you accept this?

S L, I have already answered your question in details a few times, but you still keep asking the same or similar question. The last answer I gave is the most anyone of you will ever get from me. GMS.

What you believe is irrelevant to the FACT that Trump's presidency ends on January 20th.

[San Lumen]

Trump will not be President come January 20th. You lost. Why can;'t you accept this?

S L, I have already answered your question in details a few times, but you still keep asking the same or similar question. The last answer I gave is the most anyone of you will ever get from me. GMS.

Its not an answer but im done trying to have a reasonable debate with you. Its rather clear you live in your own reality with your own facts. If OAN or Trump said the Earth was flat you'd believe it.