2020 US General Election Thread XII: The End

[Indian Empire]

The current outcome is best case for Republicans. Unless Ossoff & Warnock win the two Georgia runoffs, in which case it would be the reverse.

Which Republicans? Both parties have such motley coalitions that it's a testament to the power of the two party system they're cohesive groups at all.

All of them.

[Albrenia]

Best case? As in better than if they won the election?

[Indian Empire]

Best case? As in better than if they won the election?

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Why is it voter fraud if Trump lost his lead in some states after more votes were counted?

Because they're not votes for Trump and so are illegal votes. Presumably.

No, it's because all Republican voters are salt-of-the-earth, straight shooting Great Americans. So any fraud must be being done by dastardly Democratic voters, and we know there IS fraud because Democrats can't prove that zero of the hundred-forty million votes cast were fraudulent.

When it's all over we'll just laugh at Republicans for believing in that bogey-man. But for now, I'm really quite anxious. It might all be a pretext to commit Republican fraud on a national scale. "Democrats allegedly did it first, we're only turning the tables" faaark.

[Albrenia]

Best case? As in better than if they won the election?

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

That is a fair point. Short term loss for long term gain.

[Indian Empire]

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

That is a fair point. Short term loss for long term gain.

Yeah, Republican leaders love playing the long game. It wouldn't shock me if they intentionally tried to throw Trump under the bus knowing they'd be fine so long as they held the Senate. If that's the case, they effectively succeeded.

[Absolon-7]

NYT reports Joe Biden now has a 7k lead in Georgia!

[Kowani]

Best case? As in better than if they won the election?

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

Looking at the way Trump's cult is tearing apart the current GOP as the flaming shipwreck goes down, something tells me they may have miscalculated a bit.

[Albrenia]

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

Looking at the way Trump's cult is tearing apart the current GOP as the flaming shipwreck goes down, something tells me they may have miscalculated a bit.

They're probably counting on those people getting over it in four years' time and just voting for the next guy they put up.

[Xanthal]

Yeah, Republican leaders love playing the long game. It wouldn't shock me if they intentionally tried to throw Trump under the bus knowing they'd be fine so long as they held the Senate. If that's the case, they effectively succeeded.

In what way did Republican leaders throw Trump under the bus? Given how much of a departure Trump has been from their traditional brand, I think most of them have bent over backwards to align themselves with him. Unless you count "not agreeing to overthrow democracy" as a betrayal.

[Indian Empire]

Yeah, Republican leaders love playing the long game. It wouldn't shock me if they intentionally tried to throw Trump under the bus knowing they'd be fine so long as they held the Senate. If that's the case, they effectively succeeded.

In what way did Republican leaders throw Trump under the bus? Given how much of a departure Trump has been from their traditional brand, I think most of them have bent over backwards to align themselves with him. Unless you count "not agreeing to overthrow democracy" as a betrayal.

Personally, I'm just speculating about that. Who knows. But them holding the senate while Trump loses is a big win for them.

Looking at the way Trump's cult is tearing apart the current GOP as the flaming shipwreck goes down, something tells me they may have miscalculated a bit.

They're probably counting on those people getting over it in four years' time and just voting for the next guy they put up.

My personal view is they'll just end up with someone who's effectively worse than Trump without his baggage (and more popular). Pence fits all the checkboxes.

[Duvniask]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

[Indian Empire]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

Kentuckian here. He has low approval statewide generally, but the "R" next to his name is all that matters.

[RiderSyl]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

I live along the TN-KY border, and Kentucky is more "southern state" than Tennessee is.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Just as much fatigue. Less excitement. Also nobody got what they wanted.

The current outcome is best case for Republicans. Unless Ossoff & Warnock win the two Georgia runoffs, in which case it would be the reverse.

It's clearly NOT the best outcome for them. They fought hard for the Presidency, there was no lack of conviction there.

It MIGHT be a good outcome for them anyway, but that relies on a future of two years (or better, four) of continuing disaster for the US, which Republicans can keep Democrats from doing anything about, then blame them for. It's hard to say this from the bitter dregs of a terrible year, but next year might be quite good for the US. Lockdowns were a government intervention in the economy, I think that will be easier to recover from than from a regular recession (generally some part of the economy breaks, and the burden of repairing it slows recovery). Also, if Republicans can't actually legislate, it follows they can't do anything to undo deregulation and might have just given that away for nothing (you know Democrats would never dare deregulate, it offends their base, but if they're powerless to re-regulate they won't be blamed, and may find the economic benefit during recovery which Republicans failed to find in better times).

And if the economy is doing well in the second year, I say blow them out of the water with their own patent move: big tax cuts!

There's a recurrent pattern in Australian political history of making big cuts in spending and possibly tax-raises first up in a new government's term (well, in the first year's budget, but early anyway) and dropping the tax cut bill in an election year. Voters buy that nonsense about it being good for the economy to cut taxes, but giving them plenty of time to see that actually happen has become less and less worthwhile (it's a barely noticeable effect when taxes are too low already) so why not be blatant about it? Tax cuts means more money in their pockets, so go to the election the same year while they're still grateful! It really is buying votes, but what the hell. It works for Republicans so why wouldn't it work for Democrats? Be even more blatant about it: do it in the election year!

[Jedi Council]

Looking at the way Trump's cult is tearing apart the current GOP as the flaming shipwreck goes down, something tells me they may have miscalculated a bit.

They're probably counting on those people getting over it in four years' time and just voting for the next guy they put up.

That is the test; so many Trump supporters are at least somewhat consoled by the fact that this election was not a blowout, and that he remained competitive in places like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. To them, someone less idiotic is going to win these places back.

Now, the problem is, Trumpism without Trump has not had much success. In many cases, candidates who lack Trump's teflon coating have been punished at the polls for acting like him. Likewise, they lack his abrasive personality and the asshole quality so many find appealing for some reason. Personality and identity are everything in politics, so even if the GOP finds a sensible candidate and runs on Trumpian issues with them, there is no guarantee that the "Trump Coalition," such as it is, will turn out in full force in 2024 as they did in 2016, and in 2020.

I find it hard to believe that either of the two most likely candidates, Nikki Haley or Mike Pence, will elicit the same response as Trump did among the base. Likewise, the GOP is going to have a what I call the Thatcher Paradox : Just like Thatcher, Trump will be a dominant force in his party until the day he dies, or leaves public life (I know which will come first) and will probably be highly influential in future primaries and events, if he does not run himself. In this case, the influence he wields will overshadow the new leadership and positions the Party is trying to foster, and serve to remind the public of the contentious and controversial years of his Presidency. This in turn will lead to both infighting among the Party, as well as less popularity among the electorate, the paradox being that they cant ditch Trump because of the power he will hold, but there is every likelihood he could be a drag on their fortunes later. The GOP will find itself constantly reckoning with Trumps presence, for better or for worse, for the next decade or so.

How the GOP handles it will be key to their electoral prospects in the future.

[Jedi Council]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

Careful, political nicknaming around election time is sure to get a quick slap from the Mods.

[Telconi]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

He prevented Garland from being a SCOTUS justice.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes. This allows them to restock & get a more popular figurehead who destroys Biden in the 2024 election, effectively depriving Liberal causes of any means to pass legislation for 8-10 years. If Trump won, Liberal causes would get a trifecta & the means to pass meaningful reforms in 4 years instead.

That is a fair point. Short term loss for long term gain.

It's not a fair point. Getting something now is always better than the nebulous promise of getting a better thing in four years. It's called "a bird in the hand".

And what Indian Empire is peddling is accelerationism. Making things worse for the American people will turn them hard to the Republicans ... which in turn requires the assumptions that (a) the next 4 years will be terrible, and (b) Republicans can pin the blame on Democrats for "not doing anything". The level of desperation involved in the side of small government thinking Democrats will be blamed for NOT governing is quite extraordinary. These are the people who tried to wreck Obama with a government shutdown. Duh, guys, a significant part of your base actually want a government shutdown!

[Albrenia]

Imagine if Trump does become a defining figure of Republican politics for the next decade or two. What a piss poor champion for a cause.

[Kowani]

Imagine if Trump does become a defining figure of Republican politics for the next decade or two. What a piss poor champion for a cause.

Assuming he does not go to prison or flee the country...
yeah, no, he definitely will.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes [McConnell] enough to vote him back in?

Even under regular rules I think that's a bad choice of nickname.

It's pretty much universal that the Speaker (or equivalent head of chamber) gets a bonus in their own seat. Voters feel gratified that their representative (etc) is more powerful than the other representatives. In addition the more powerful members (heads of committee, or ministers) tend to deliver a lot more pork. ED: Oh, AND, the more powerful members get more "donations" to campaign with.

[Albrenia]

Imagine if Trump does become a defining figure of Republican politics for the next decade or two. What a piss poor champion for a cause.

Assuming he does not go to prison or flee the country...
yeah, no, he definitely will.

Future generations are gonna laugh so hard at us.

[Kowani]

The Canadians called this election before we did.


excuse me real quick

Assuming he does not go to prison or flee the country...
yeah, no, he definitely will.

Future generations are gonna laugh so hard at us.

or curse our names, either way.

[New haven america]

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Kentucky likes Turtlehead enough to vote him back in?

He tells people that the dems want to take away their coal jobs and bankrupt the state and buys out airtime to air his own ads so no one can prove in wrong on a mass scale in any feasible way.