by Khoronzon » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:50 pm
The world is no longer as it once was, moulded beyond recognition by the hands of its coming masters. Humanity is faced with a simple choice: evolve, or die.
by Pope Saint Peter the Apostle » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:37 pm
Khoronzon wrote:[...] It's mathematically impossible for an employee to be paid the full worth of their labour, whatever that may be, while still allowing their employer to generate a profit - that profit is, by necessity, subtracted from the total value to go to the employer, with the employee being paid what's left as a wage. If the employee was paid the total value, their labour would not be profitable to the company. [...]
by Kernen » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:46 pm
by Turelisa- » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:54 pm
by Thepeopl » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:22 pm
by Esternial » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:16 pm
by Ethel mermania » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:20 pm
by Page » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:22 pm
by Lemon Soviet Socialist Republics » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:25 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:One is not obligated to work for wages.
by Ethel mermania » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:28 pm
by Zeganas » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:29 pm
by Esternial » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:35 pm
by Merrill » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:52 pm
by Cetacea » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:02 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:16 pm
by Merrill » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:43 pm
Cetacea wrote:Tax isnt theft, Tax is Rent that you pay as your contribution to the social contract
Hum ans are a social species and the individual can not survive without the tacit protection of the group 'Society'.
the problem of capitalism is the concentration of exclusive rights and properties into the hands of a few, which directly undermines the social contract and which wage labour attempts to rebalance via its market mechanisms. That doesnt mean capitalism is wrong, society needs individuals to take risks and gain the rewards of that risk too but the ascendency of Social Good must be first..
by Cordel One » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:05 pm
by Merrill » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:40 pm
Cordel One wrote:Private proberty and wage labor are definitely theft, much more so than one could ever try to frame taxation as. Advocates for capitalism try to frame it as voluntary, but how voluntary is it when the alternative is homelessness?
by Adriatican » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:48 pm
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Senkaku » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:53 pm
Khoronzon wrote:In this view, it's tantamount to the state stealing from its citizens by taking wealth from them without them wanting it to.
by Merrill » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm
by Adriatican » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:07 pm
Merrill wrote:Senkaku wrote:Fortunately we don't have to worry, because this view is stupid
If it is morally wrong for one man to take the property of another by force, how is it morally right for the State to to do the same? Just because “The Majority” voted? Taxes are not voluntary. They are compelled by force. No different from the mob looting a business, or do you think that is okay also?
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Aclion » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:11 pm
Khoronzon wrote:...What does that make wage labour?
The concept of taxation is often criticised for being a means by which the state acquires a portion of what an individual produces by their own labour without that person's express consent for it to do so. In this view, it's tantamount to the state stealing from its citizens by taking wealth from them without them wanting it to. But what makes living under a state that imposes taxes different from being employed by a for-profit organisation in this regard?
by Telconi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm
Adriatican wrote:Merrill wrote:
If it is morally wrong for one man to take the property of another by force, how is it morally right for the State to to do the same? Just because “The Majority” voted? Taxes are not voluntary. They are compelled by force. No different from the mob looting a business, or do you think that is okay also?
Again, this is a fallacious statement.
If you are provided value in exchange for that which is levied, you are not being stolen from.
Seeing as I assume you use; sidewalks, parks, public schools, water, gas, electricity, trash, street lights, roads, bridges, and vote, you're receiving value.
Now, if you want to have a conversation about how your taxes are appropriated, and whether you should have a greater voice in that process, that will be an argument one could reasonably entertain.
This assertion that money taxed just disappears into a black hole, or is used to personally enrich those who work in government, is simply not born out by reality, however.
by Destyntine » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm
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