Border States after a Hypothetical Civil war

[Tokora]

This is more of a thought scenario than an actual prediction so some aspects of reality are going to be ignored to focus on other details.

Let's say that regardless who wins the election, neither side concedes and the country descends into Balkan level chaos. Eventually the conservative faction reunifies most of the country, however, the states of Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, and all of New England were able to be recieve protection by Canada (unlikely but just roll with it) before they could be reconquered.

If Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan were able to join Canada, would Canada also be willing to annex Oregon and Illinois if they offer or would they be too far south to be manageable? Would New York, Vermont, and New England unify into a single nation, join Canada, or become allied but independent neighboring countries (I've heard that Vermont has a bit of an independence streak). If they did unify, what would the New Nation be called? And how would the US treat the remaining liberal regions in the west?

I personally think that Illinois might be difficult for Canada to also swallow, the Northeast would form a New Nation (no idea on the name), and the US would treat the remaining liberals in the west like an occupied territory under martial law unable to threaten the status quo.

[Tokora]

What? Too soon? People have speculated about a second war for years, I just wanted to discuss what the aftermath of a specific playthrough would be, albeit with a few liberties on Canada's response.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

you're assuming obese rednecks rolling down a hill with 8 trillion bullets would lose a war against people who don't know which toilet to use

none of these states would be going anywhere in any hypothetical civil war, america has too many extremists to not finish a full out civil war

(not an x y thanks, most dems/reps are good people ok)

[Nilokeras]

all of New England were able to be recieve protection by Canada (unlikely but just roll with it) before they could be reconquered.

Why would we want a chunk of a failed state?

[Lamoni]

you're assuming obese rednecks rolling down a hill with 8 trillion bullets would lose a war against people who don't know which toilet to use

none of these states would be going anywhere in any hypothetical civil war, america has too many extremists to not finish a full out civil war

(not an x y thanks, most dems/reps are good people ok)

*** 1-day ban for trolling ***
That little disclaimer does not magically excuse trolling.

[The Alma Mater]

Why would there be a civil war ? You now have a nice blue border. That is what Trump promised - a wall.

[Kubra]

Canadian manifesto destiny, from pole to frozen pole.

[Bala Mantre]

I wouldnt mind seeing a stronk Cascadia

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Oh, great! There is a game shattered union!

[Tokora]

you're assuming obese rednecks rolling down a hill with 8 trillion bullets would lose a war against people who don't know which toilet to use

none of these states would be going anywhere in any hypothetical civil war, america has too many extremists to not finish a full out civil war

(not an x y thanks, most dems/reps are good people ok)

It's finished because the states on the border (hence the title) have received Canadian protection before the conservatives could complete the reconquest.

Oh, great! There is a game shattered union!
(Image)

Never played it, but after googling it the scenario is basically a fascist Confederacy that fails to conquer New England. Also Canada makes the great lakes mare nostrum. I hope that clarifies it for you.

[Eahland]

Vermont was independent for fourteen years before we joined the Union. We can do it again.

(That's more than twice as long as Texas, for those keeping score at home.)

We also have America's laxest weapons laws, and more guns than people. As far as Vermont is concerned, I can carry basically anything I can lift, pretty much anywhere I want, openly or concealed, without a permit. We've sued the Feds repeatedly when they try to change that. Don't think that we're pushovers just because we believe that people have a right to health care and that it's no one's business but yours who you marry.

[The Marlborough]

I would only want Canada to annex sparsely populated states in the Great Plains and maybe Alaska. It could puppet the Great Lakes and whatever other regimes are useful to puppet after that but no annexation.

[The Two Jerseys]

How bold of you to assume that the states would retain their current borders.

[Stellar Colonies]

Not California, along with Oregon and Washington?

Of course, we have more people here than in all of Canada, so annexing us along with the rest of the West Coast would result in them becoming a minority within their own country, which probably wouldn't go over well with them.

In the unlikely situation that the US fell apart and California went its own way, I'd imagine we'd become some sort of junior or equal North American partner to Canada and/or Mexico.

And coming back to the main topic, I'd imagine New England plus New York and Vermont would either form a new country or join Canada (although the latter could irritate the rump US).

Of course, a scenario resulting in the US coming apart is quite unlikely.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

you're assuming obese rednecks rolling down a hill with 8 trillion bullets would lose a war against people who don't know which toilet to use

none of these states would be going anywhere in any hypothetical civil war, america has too many extremists to not finish a full out civil war

(not an x y thanks, most dems/reps are good people ok)

*** 1-day ban for trolling ***
That little disclaimer does not magically excuse trolling.

get a brain honestly

[Chan Island]

Bold of you to assume the West coast states would just let themselves be dominated by some nebulous conservative faction. In your scenario I see Cascadia becoming a thing.

And also a Republic of Texas. They've been wittering on about it for some time now anyway.

[The Blaatschapen]

This is more of a thought scenario than an actual prediction so some aspects of reality are going to be ignored to focus on other details.

Let's say that regardless who wins the election, neither side concedes and the country descends into Balkan level chaos. Eventually the conservative faction reunifies most of the country, however, the states of Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, and all of New England were able to be recieve protection by Canada (unlikely but just roll with it) before they could be reconquered.

If Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan were able to join Canada, would Canada also be willing to annex Oregon and Illinois if they offer or would they be too far south to be manageable? Would New York, Vermont, and New England unify into a single nation, join Canada, or become allied but independent neighboring countries (I've heard that Vermont has a bit of an independence streak). If they did unify, what would the New Nation be called? And how would the US treat the remaining liberal regions in the west?

I personally think that Illinois might be difficult for Canada to also swallow, the Northeast would form a New Nation (no idea on the name), and the US would treat the remaining liberals in the west like an occupied territory under martial law unable to threaten the status quo.

Canada has a population of about 38 million people. New England has 14.8, New York State has 19.4.

And then these other states still going. It's not so much "joining" Canada as it is "taking over" Canada.

[Tokora]

Vermont was independent for fourteen years before we joined the Union. We can do it again.

(That's more than twice as long as Texas, for those keeping score at home.)

We also have America's laxest weapons laws, and more guns than people. As far as Vermont is concerned, I can carry basically anything I can lift, pretty much anywhere I want, openly or concealed, without a permit. We've sued the Feds repeatedly when they try to change that. Don't think that we're pushovers just because we believe that people have a right to health care and that it's no one's business but yours who you marry.

How many people do you think would try to escape to Vermont and how many refugees could Vermont hold? Just looking at my options in case Biden gets Allende'd.

Not California, along with Oregon and Washington?

Of course, we have more people here than in all of Canada, so annexing us along with the rest of the West Coast would result in them becoming a minority within their own country, which probably wouldn't go over well with them.

In the unlikely situation that the US fell apart and California went its own way, I'd imagine we'd become some sort of junior or equal North American partner to Canada and/or Mexico.

Actually only Washington manages to join Canada. California is reconquered and Oregon's fate depends entirely on if Canada could feasibly manage that far south.

Canada has a population of about 38 million people. New England has 14.8, New York State has 19.4.

And then these other states still going. It's not so much "joining" Canada as it is "taking over" Canada.

So which of the three not Canada options are most likely in your opinion? Also any ideas what the Northeast union would be called?

[Postauthoritarian America]

There would be no border states because there are not red states and blue states, there are red states and blue cities. Let's see the red parts of the electoral map try to survive without the markets, financial services, utilities and most importantly tax dollar transfers supplied by the cities, then talk about a hypothetical civil war. Which if it ever came about would be like La Violencia in Colombia after which the border would be between the revived Mexican states of Alta California, Santa Fe and Tejas and the new Canadian province of South Manitoba.

[Kubra]

This is more of a thought scenario than an actual prediction so some aspects of reality are going to be ignored to focus on other details.

Let's say that regardless who wins the election, neither side concedes and the country descends into Balkan level chaos. Eventually the conservative faction reunifies most of the country, however, the states of Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, and all of New England were able to be recieve protection by Canada (unlikely but just roll with it) before they could be reconquered.

If Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan were able to join Canada, would Canada also be willing to annex Oregon and Illinois if they offer or would they be too far south to be manageable? Would New York, Vermont, and New England unify into a single nation, join Canada, or become allied but independent neighboring countries (I've heard that Vermont has a bit of an independence streak). If they did unify, what would the New Nation be called? And how would the US treat the remaining liberal regions in the west?

I personally think that Illinois might be difficult for Canada to also swallow, the Northeast would form a New Nation (no idea on the name), and the US would treat the remaining liberals in the west like an occupied territory under martial law unable to threaten the status quo.

Canada has a population of about 38 million people. New England has 14.8, New York State has 19.4.

And then these other states still going. It's not so much "joining" Canada as it is "taking over" Canada.

whoa there you're assuming we'll enfranchise em
We will take up the Canadian man's burden, to cviliise and hoserise their poor souls. Only after a long period of transition may they join our company as (seperate but) equals.

[Tokora]

Canada has a population of about 38 million people. New England has 14.8, New York State has 19.4.

And then these other states still going. It's not so much "joining" Canada as it is "taking over" Canada.

whoa there you're assuming we'll enfranchise em
We will take up the Canadian man's burden, to cviliise and hoserise their poor souls. Only after a long period of transition may they join our company as (seperate but) equals.

Best of luck to you.

[Postauthoritarian America]

Canada has a population of about 38 million people. New England has 14.8, New York State has 19.4.

And then these other states still going. It's not so much "joining" Canada as it is "taking over" Canada.

whoa there you're assuming we'll enfranchise em
We will take up the Canadian man's burden, to cviliise and hoserise their poor souls. Only after a long period of transition may they join our company as (seperate but) equals.

Only when they reflexively reach for the malt vinegar for their French fries may they be considered True Canadians...