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Is voting useless in the US?

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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:02 am

It’s not useless at all. The most recent election should be proof of that. Every vote matters in every election. next year is municipal and county elections which affect your day to day greatly. Plus two states have statewide elections and legislative elections.

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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:04 pm

San Lumen wrote:It’s not useless at all. The most recent election should be proof of that. Every vote matters in every election. next year is municipal and county elections which affect your day to day greatly. Plus two states have statewide elections and legislative elections.

It's absolutely useless. The bombs won't stop and the United States will continue to terrorize its people and the rest of the world no matter who you vote for, one party will just pretend to care and make symbolic gestures while the other will not.
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Marsane
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Postby Marsane » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:25 pm

On the national level, yes unless you live in a swing-state or competitive district. Especially so if you're approaching voting in the US with the idea of creating meaningful change, given the structure of the system. On the local level a little less so.
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:43 pm

Cordel One wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It’s not useless at all. The most recent election should be proof of that. Every vote matters in every election. next year is municipal and county elections which affect your day to day greatly. Plus two states have statewide elections and legislative elections.

It's absolutely useless. The bombs won't stop and the United States will continue to terrorize its people and the rest of the world no matter who you vote for, one party will just pretend to care and make symbolic gestures while the other will not.


Terrorize? What are you talking about? If you think you can do better why don’t you run? There is something called a primary.

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:16 pm

No. I get that people don’t like the e electoral college or whenever a president they don’t like gets elected, but the US isn’t just the fucking presidency.

Congress for example is directly elected by the people, and they’re the ones who actually make laws, and serve as a major check on the president.

And most state and local governments are directly elected as well, and arguably have far greater impacts on the average American than the feds do in day to day life.

It’s not perfect, but it’s a long ways from voting being meaningless.
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:19 pm

Adamede wrote:No. I get that people don’t like the e electoral college or whenever a president they don’t like gets elected, but the US isn’t just the fucking presidency.

Congress for example is directly elected by the people, and they’re the ones who actually make laws, and serve as a major check on the president.

And most state and local governments are directly elected as well, and arguably have far greater impacts on the average American than the feds do in day to day life.

It’s not perfect, but it’s a long ways from voting being meaningless.

People seem to think president is all that matters. Next year is local elections and those have a tremendous impact.

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Arlenton
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Postby Arlenton » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:48 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:The 2020 US election has so far failed to materialise the changes that were expected. Therefore, I wanted to ask: is voting useless in the US for change and progressivism? Will people finally realise the futility of electoralism there, and begin to use methods of direct action such as general strike and disruption? Or do you still believe that voting isn't useless in their system?

I've argued that voting in the US has been useless for some time due to the broken and outdated electoral system, although I didn't post this yesterday to avoid accusations that I'm a Russian spy/Chinese saboteur/Kim Yo-Jung. I think the only way forward would be direct action such as large scale nonviolent protests and strikes. But that is my opinion, and I want to ask you in the words of comrade Lenin, "what is to be done?"

You not getting your ideal outcome after an election doesn't mean that voting is useless.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:15 pm

No matter who you vote for, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the bombs never stop.
read your own damn sources
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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:20 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Cordel One wrote:It's absolutely useless. The bombs won't stop and the United States will continue to terrorize its people and the rest of the world no matter who you vote for, one party will just pretend to care and make symbolic gestures while the other will not.


Terrorize? What are you talking about? If you think you can do better why don’t you run? There is something called a primary.

I'd need corporate support to have a chance at being relevant, and if I somehow did get elected I'd have my hands tied.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:23 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Adamede wrote:No. I get that people don’t like the e electoral college or whenever a president they don’t like gets elected, but the US isn’t just the fucking presidency.

Congress for example is directly elected by the people, and they’re the ones who actually make laws, and serve as a major check on the president.

And most state and local governments are directly elected as well, and arguably have far greater impacts on the average American than the feds do in day to day life.

It’s not perfect, but it’s a long ways from voting being meaningless.

People seem to think president is all that matters. Next year is local elections and those have a tremendous impact.

And the Senatorial elections have, of course, all come down to one state because nothing can be straightforward in 2020. And they moved the race to January--yay!

Governor elections are also important, especially in swing states.
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Cordel One wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Terrorize? What are you talking about? If you think you can do better why don’t you run? There is something called a primary.

I'd need corporate support to have a chance at being relevant, and if I somehow did get elected I'd have my hands tied.

Rubbish


Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
San Lumen wrote:People seem to think president is all that matters. Next year is local elections and those have a tremendous impact.

And the Senatorial elections have, of course, all come down to one state because nothing can be straightforward in 2020. And they moved the race to January--yay!

Governor elections are also important, especially in swing states.


The runoff is in January because it’s the law. No one get a majority in the November election therefore a runoff election is required two months later.

all elections matter.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:09 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:The 2020 US election has so far failed to materialise the changes that were expected. Therefore, I wanted to ask: is voting useless in the US for change and progressivism?

Translation: I didn't get what I wanted, so the system is broken. Waaaaah!

Sorry, that's not how it works. The presidential system has a broken part: the all or nothing nature of the electoral college. Change that to a mandatory proportional EC, and the problems are fixed. Oh, but wait... Biden won, which is a step in the right direction for change and progressivism. Huh, guess it is working.

And Gerrymandering is a problem for the House and local legislatures, but that's a state by state issue. If you're gonna protest, protest locally; it's worked in some states.

But neither of those affects the Senate or the governors. Any "failings" there seem to be democracy in action.

San Lumen wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:And the Senatorial elections have, of course, all come down to one state because nothing can be straightforward in 2020. And they moved the race to January--yay!

The runoff is in January because it’s the law. No one get a majority in the November election therefore a runoff election is required two months later.

Ah, yes, America, where people complain the system is broken without having the slightest understanding of how the system works.
Last edited by Northwest Slobovia on Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:12 pm

Northwest Slobovia wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:The 2020 US election has so far failed to materialise the changes that were expected. Therefore, I wanted to ask: is voting useless in the US for change and progressivism?

Translation: I didn't get what I wanted, so the system is broken. Waaaaah!

Sorry, that's not how it works. The presidential system has a broken part: the all or nothing nature of the electoral college. Change that to a mandatory proportional EC, and the problems are fixed. Oh, but wait... Biden won, which is a step in the right direction for change and progressivism. Huh, guess it is working.

And Gerrymandering is a problem for the House and local legislatures, but that's a state by state issue. If you're gonna protest, protest locally; it's worked in some states.

But neither of those affects the Senate or the governors. Any "failings" there seem to be democracy in action.

San Lumen wrote:
The runoff is in January because it’s the law. No one get a majority in the November election therefore a runoff election is required two months later.

Ah, yes, America, where people complain the system is broken without having the slightest understanding of how the system works.

I have some understanding. I didn't fully know that, yes, but part of me just really wants this to get over and done with so we can not be at each other's throats for--oh, who am I kidding. We'll still be at each other's throats.
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Stylan
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Postby Stylan » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:03 pm

Yeah, voting is useless in almost all countries in the world, but especially in Western democracies.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:38 pm

Kowani wrote:No matter who you vote for, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the bombs never stop.

Then start your revolution then.
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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:47 pm

Adamede wrote:
Kowani wrote:No matter who you vote for, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the bombs never stop.

Then start your revolution then.

One step at a time.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:52 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Adamede wrote:Then start your revolution then.

One step at a time.

Sure...
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Lusai
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Postby Lusai » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:55 pm

bourgeoisie jouissance machine go brrrrrrr
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Sungoldy-China
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Postby Sungoldy-China » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:11 pm

Voting is useless to show that most of the forces in society are still profiting from the current order,

Without Hoover and the Great Depression, where would Roosevelt come from?
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:51 pm

I don't think voting is useless as long as you're betting on the right horse. If they've got experience at or near the level of elected office they're running for and raised more money than their opponents they'll probably win. Policies come third.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:53 pm

Sungoldy-China wrote:Voting is useless to show that most of the forces in society are still profiting from the current order,

Without Hoover and the Great Depression, where would Roosevelt come from?

Roosevelt was a pretty good ticket.

He had experience as a Governor before he ran. I'd have bet good money on him and probably donated to his campaign, he's a proven winner.
Last edited by Sundiata on Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:27 pm

Adamede wrote:
Kowani wrote:No matter who you vote for, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the bombs never stop.

Then start your revolution then.

i'm not in favor of failed enterprises
read your own damn sources
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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:42 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Adamede wrote:Then start your revolution then.

One step at a time.

Go start your revolution

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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Cordel One wrote:One step at a time.

Go start your revolution

Probably not in my lifetime.
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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:56 pm

Given that over the 233 years that the US has been a country we've just replaced one dumbass with another dumbass every 4 years (with only a handful of non-dumbasses in there), I'd say yeah it's pretty useless. Sadly there's almost no way to reduce the number of dumbasses in each election so we're kinda screwed either way.
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