Louisville Police Officer Sues Breonna Taylor's Boyfriend

[Greater Malegron]

I would be willing to provide some evidence, particularly of how disproportionately punished and targeted minorities are by the criminal justice system, but I think it would be a wasted effort. If you are of the mind that Affirmative Action is some spontaneous and useless system that is "racist" towards white people, and if the subject of this thread, as well as the exoneration of the police who murdered Breonna Taylor, has not at least planted some doubt into the idea that there isn't at least some systemic racism prevalent in this country, I don't know what will at least make you consider otherwise.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps more POC end up in jail because they commit more crime, statistically? Also, it's really quite hard to indict anyone who shoots after being shot at.

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

[Albrenia]

I agree. Do we also agree that more needs to be done to prevent more abuse of power by the police?

Yes, but not just solely to African American suspects/potential suspects. I’ve seen police on television and read about them being just as brutal with non-black suspects/perpetrators. But anyway, yes, there need to be positive reforms.

Yeah, I agree again.

[Daves Computer]

I would be willing to provide some evidence, particularly of how disproportionately punished and targeted minorities are by the criminal justice system, but I think it would be a wasted effort. If you are of the mind that Affirmative Action is some spontaneous and useless system that is "racist" towards white people, and if the subject of this thread, as well as the exoneration of the police who murdered Breonna Taylor, has not at least planted some doubt into the idea that there isn't at least some systemic racism prevalent in this country, I don't know what will at least make you consider otherwise.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps more POC end up in jail because they commit more crime, statistically? Also, it's really quite hard to indict anyone who shoots after being shot at.

Ah yes, I've heard of the tired "thirteen-fifty" argument and the people who state that minorities commit more crime because it's "in their nature." Why do you think minorities commit more crime?

[Albrenia]

I would be willing to provide some evidence, particularly of how disproportionately punished and targeted minorities are by the criminal justice system, but I think it would be a wasted effort. If you are of the mind that Affirmative Action is some spontaneous and useless system that is "racist" towards white people, and if the subject of this thread, as well as the exoneration of the police who murdered Breonna Taylor, has not at least planted some doubt into the idea that there isn't at least some systemic racism prevalent in this country, I don't know what will at least make you consider otherwise.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps more POC end up in jail because they commit more crime, statistically? Also, it's really quite hard to indict anyone who shoots after being shot at.

Dude don't go there. It makes it sound like you think minorities are just born 'more criminal' than white people.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps more POC end up in jail because they commit more crime, statistically? Also, it's really quite hard to indict anyone who shoots after being shot at.

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

[Greater Malegron]

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

It’s literally a white supremacist dogwhistle. You might as well quote fucking Mein Kampf.

[Esalia]

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

And if it isn't just the character, behaviour and community of black people leading to that statistic?

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps more POC end up in jail because they commit more crime, statistically? Also, it's really quite hard to indict anyone who shoots after being shot at.

Ah yes, I've heard of the tired "thirteen-fifty" argument and the people who state that minorities commit more crime because it's "in their nature." Why do you think minorities commit more crime?

It is absolutely not "in their nature" any more than it is in the nature of any other human being. The reason why I think this is because of theological reasons, the foremost reason being fathers are grievously absent from most black homes. It pains me deeply that so many grow up without fathers. However, this is another debate for another time.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

It’s literally a white supremacist dogwhistle. You might as well quote fucking Mein Kampf.

It's literally not XD

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

And if it isn't just the character, behaviour and community of black people leading to that statistic?

You're going to have to find some evidence that it isn't.

[Greater Malegron]

It’s literally a white supremacist dogwhistle. You might as well quote fucking Mein Kampf.

It's literally not XD

It’s quoted by literal fucking nazis.

[Myrensis]

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

"If all it takes to break these people down is centuries of enslavement, followed by decades of disenfranchisement, segregation and abuse, followed by more decades of continuing disenfranchisement under the guise of law & order, continuing segregation via white flight and red lining, and economic depression heavily driven by discrimination and racially biased law enforcement all continuing into the present day...well than that just proves we were right about those people all along! White people have problems to you know, and we seem to be doing fine!"

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

It's literally not XD

It’s quoted by literal fucking nazis.

And? Just because the evidence is used by bad people doesn't mean the evidence is bad. If 13% of the population commits 50% of the crime, then 13% of the population commits 50% of the crime whether or not it is cited by nazis.

[Omniabstracta]

Ah, I see, the old 13/50 defense. Nice white supremacist dogwhistle.

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publi ... sparities/

If you want to talk about “factual statistics”, how about taking a look at the actual factual statistics? Blacks are nearly four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites, despite roughly equal drug use across races. African Americans are twice as likely to receive sentences with mandatory minimums as compared to whites, irrespective of other factors like income and criminal history. Blacks and other people of color are far more likely to be denied bail than similarly situated whites. And on, and on. It’s far from “black people do more crime guys.”

[Albrenia]

And if it isn't just the character, behaviour and community of black people leading to that statistic?

You're going to have to find some evidence that it isn't.

Isn't it statistically pretty well proven that, for similar crimes, black males are punished a lot harsher than white males? That might have something to do with the amount of them in jail.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

Not white supremacist nor a dogwhistle, as it is a factual statistic. Perhaps you should look at yourselves and say "Gee, we need to fix our own character, behavior, and community instead of yelling 'BLM' and 'Cops are pigs'."

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publi ... sparities/

If you want to talk about “factual statistics”, how about taking a look at the actual factual statistics? Blacks are nearly four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites, despite roughly equal drug use across races. African Americans are twice as likely to receive sentences with mandatory minimums as compared to whites, irrespective of other factors like income and criminal history. Blacks and other people of color are far more likely to be denied bail than similarly situated whites. And on, and on. It’s far from “black people do more crime guys.”

What you're ignoring is why those stats exist. All you're doing here is saying that there is a difference. Fantastic! There's a difference! But why?I'm willing to bet it's not because of systematic racism.

[Vassenor]

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publi ... sparities/

If you want to talk about “factual statistics”, how about taking a look at the actual factual statistics? Blacks are nearly four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites, despite roughly equal drug use across races. African Americans are twice as likely to receive sentences with mandatory minimums as compared to whites, irrespective of other factors like income and criminal history. Blacks and other people of color are far more likely to be denied bail than similarly situated whites. And on, and on. It’s far from “black people do more crime guys.”

What you're ignoring is why those stats exist. All you're doing here is saying that there is a difference. Fantastic! There's a difference! But why?I'm willing to bet it's not because of systematic racism.

So why don't you tell us the reason why. With evidence.

[Albrenia]

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publi ... sparities/

If you want to talk about “factual statistics”, how about taking a look at the actual factual statistics? Blacks are nearly four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites, despite roughly equal drug use across races. African Americans are twice as likely to receive sentences with mandatory minimums as compared to whites, irrespective of other factors like income and criminal history. Blacks and other people of color are far more likely to be denied bail than similarly situated whites. And on, and on. It’s far from “black people do more crime guys.”

What you're ignoring is why those stats exist. All you're doing here is saying that there is a difference. Fantastic! There's a difference! But why?I'm willing to bet it's not because of systematic racism.

It's literally systemic racism if a white guy commits a crime and goes to jail for 6 months, and a black guy does the same thing and gets 5 years.

[Esalia]

And if it isn't just the character, behaviour and community of black people leading to that statistic?

You're going to have to find some evidence that it isn't.

Considering how broad "community" is and most of the things I could bring up would likely fall into that category (e.g the correlation between poverty and crime), I should rephrase the question:

What if it's not possible for black people to collectively fix their character, behaviour and community by themselves? As in, what if external factors (e.g the relationship between black communities and police, the legacy of institutions like slavery and segregation, etc.) are responsible (at least in part) for statistics like the 13/50 one?

Your proposed solution is only viable if the problem is exclusively from and caused by black people. For some reason (like, oh I don't know, America's track record with its treatment of minorities, and the fact that situations like Breonna Taylor's still occur), I have a strong doubt that the problems facing black people (at least in regards to policing) are all internal.

[Myrensis]

What you're ignoring is why those stats exist. All you're doing here is saying that there is a difference. Fantastic! There's a difference! But why?I'm willing to bet it's not because of systematic racism.

It's literally systemic racism if a white guy commits a crime and goes to jail for 6 months, and a black guy does the same thing and gets 5 years.

Now now, I'm sure there must be legitimate reasons why blacks are punished more frequently and harshly for the same crimes than white people with similar criminal and economic backgrounds, without resorting to wild conspiracy theories about racism existing in America.

[Daves Computer]

Ah yes, I've heard of the tired "thirteen-fifty" argument and the people who state that minorities commit more crime because it's "in their nature." Why do you think minorities commit more crime?

It is absolutely not "in their nature" any more than it is in the nature of any other human being. The reason why I think this is because of theological reasons, the foremost reason being fathers are grievously absent from most black homes. It pains me deeply that so many grow up without fathers. However, this is another debate for another time.

I think this is entirely relevant to discuss, however. I am of the mind that minorities such as African Americans, because of the injustices made against them, are massively disadvantaged. They've been wronged by many institutions from the criminal justice system which preys on the young and vulnerable and takes away those father figures for longer sentences than they deserve, an education system which fails to give them the fulfilling education they need to get a satisfying career, and a regrettable culture which suggests that African Americans are inherently violent, lazy, and unproductive and therefore undeserving of welfare or a job.

If you are aware of the 13/50 crime statistic but don't recognize why systems such as Affirmative Action are important, I don't know what to say. Please consider the implications of the 13/50 crime statistic. No, not the racist connotations that many supremacists ascribe to it. Rather, consider what compels people to act criminally and how societal influences play a role into that.

[Omniabstracta]

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publi ... sparities/

If you want to talk about “factual statistics”, how about taking a look at the actual factual statistics? Blacks are nearly four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites, despite roughly equal drug use across races. African Americans are twice as likely to receive sentences with mandatory minimums as compared to whites, irrespective of other factors like income and criminal history. Blacks and other people of color are far more likely to be denied bail than similarly situated whites. And on, and on. It’s far from “black people do more crime guys.”

What you're ignoring is why those stats exist. All you're doing here is saying that there is a difference. Fantastic! There's a difference! But why?I'm willing to bet it's not because of systematic racism.

If it’s not because of race, what exactly is it because of? If a black man receives a sentence far longer than a white man with the same income, the same education, the same criminal history, the same social standing for committing the same crime, what exactly is the magical factor that’s missing here? Unless you want to say “well black people usually commit more crime so the black person is clearly more likely to commit more crime and should stay locked up, despite literally anything but the color of his skin saying otherwise,” which is, you guessed it, racist.

[Albrenia]

Now I know how centrists feel. I go from shooting down people saying that cops are basically Stormtroopers, to arguing against inane 13/50 'there's something wrong with THEM' memes.

[Nejii]

You're going to have to find some evidence that it isn't.

Considering how broad "community" is and most of the things I could bring up would likely fall into that category (e.g the correlation between poverty and crime), I should rephrase the question:

What if it's not possible for black people to collectively fix their character, behaviour and community by themselves? As in, what if external factors (e.g the relationship between black communities and police, the legacy of institutions like slavery and segregation, etc.) are responsible (at least in part) for statistics like the 13/50 one?

Your proposed solution is only viable if the problem is exclusively from and caused by black people. For some reason (like, oh I don't know, America's track record with its treatment of minorities, and the fact that situations like Breonna Taylor's still occur), I have a strong doubt that the problems facing black people (at least in regards to policing) are all internal.

I’m not necessarily siding with The Federal Government of Iowa, but I can tell you (and I have heard this from black friends and colleagues in the past) that “thug culture”, gangster rap, and black celebrities encouraging citizen insurgency isn’t exactly helping smooth over race relations and AA-Police relations either.

[Nejii]

Now I know how centrists feel. I go from shooting down people saying that cops are basically Stormtroopers, to arguing against inane 13/50 'there's something wrong with THEM' memes.

Welcome to Central Avenue.