If you despise a person, you are not being a Christian!
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by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:47 am
Kiu Ghesik wrote:Merrill wrote:
Jesus said to the young rich man: “If ye would be perfect, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor.” This is an admonition to an individual to volunteer to be charitable. He did NOT say to have the Roman Centurions forcibly confiscate wealth, distribute it through clerks , and hope that some trickles down to the poor.
That doesn't preclude him from being leftist, but whatever.
by Lost Memories » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 am
Nuroblav wrote:Lost Memories wrote:A camel. Not a thread.
Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:23-24
Hehe. I knew that it is often down as camel. Alas this is a mistranslation from rope. So yes I was wrong, but still along the right lines.
Easy mixup though. See, the Greek words for camel and rope are very similar. Greek for camel is kamilon, while Greek for rope is kamiilon. Actually no, we can go one better. In Aramaic, these two words are the same - gamla.
Essentially, Jesus was likely referring to fishing ropes, seeing as a lot of his disciples were fishermen, and saying 'Imagine threading a fishing rope through a needle? Well this is even harder!'
Not that this is a major issue - the point still stands either way.
by Nuroblav » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 am
Merrill wrote:Kiu Ghesik wrote:That doesn't preclude him from being leftist, but whatever.
Kiu, are you saying that your definition of "Leftist" is voluntary action? If someone in your group decides not to participate, you are okay with that? Because I have never met or chatted with anyone "on the Left" politically that wasn't also an Authoritarian.
by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:58 am
Nuroblav wrote:Merrill wrote:
Kiu, are you saying that your definition of "Leftist" is voluntary action? If someone in your group decides not to participate, you are okay with that? Because I have never met or chatted with anyone "on the Left" politically that wasn't also an Authoritarian.
The general are you are tackling, I'm gonna use socialism here, would be the means of production in the hands of the workers, so...not quite sure what's going on there unless your idea of leftism is 'gubment makes people share'. Leftism is a rather broad term, so perhaps it can, perhaps not.
Either way, I'm sure you'll many left-leaning non-authoritarians here on NS. They do be around.
by Nuroblav » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:59 am
Lost Memories wrote:Yep, the meaning is as equally clear. Camel makes it sound even more absurd and impossible, and sound almost as a mockery
That name origin is very interesting though, makes me wonder what is the association between camel and rope which was seen by old greeks, if the same word was used for both.
Camel as the animal being tied with ropes? To transport stuff.
Or camel the animal from which ropes are made? Seems unlikely, those would be quite expensive ropes.
Is σχοινί instead an other word used for rope? How is it different from καμιλος ? Different kind of ropes?
by Exalted Inquellian State » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:59 am
Merrill wrote:Nuroblav wrote:The general are you are tackling, I'm gonna use socialism here, would be the means of production in the hands of the workers, so...not quite sure what's going on there unless your idea of leftism is 'gubment makes people share'. Leftism is a rather broad term, so perhaps it can, perhaps not.
Either way, I'm sure you'll many left-leaning non-authoritarians here on NS. They do be around.
Okay, so has there ever been a voluntary socialist group larger than a small town? Every nation that is Socialist, or claimed to be, kept control by force.
by Kexholm Karelia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:02 pm
Stylan wrote:Kexholm Karelia wrote:Left and right didn’t exist when Jesus was alive, but we see more examples on this thread of leftists attempting historical revisionism to fit their narrative
I mean, I'm a devout Christian and a staunch Communist, and I don't think Jesus would have liked cutting taxes for the rich and blowing up random brown people.
by Super Duper Nice People » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:07 pm
Glen Ellyn wrote:Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God
by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:09 pm
by Exalted Inquellian State » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:11 pm
Merrill wrote:
Population of 33,562. A medium size town? My point is that people should not look to the teachings of Christ to claim support for Governments imposing "kindness". Everything Jesus taught is for each Person to choose for themselves to love their neighbor.
by Disgraces » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:12 pm
Kexholm Karelia wrote:Left and right didn’t exist when Jesus was alive, but we see more examples on this thread of leftists attempting historical revisionism to fit their narrative
by Kiu Ghesik » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:24 pm
Merrill wrote:Kiu Ghesik wrote:That doesn't preclude him from being leftist, but whatever.
Kiu, are you saying that your definition of "Leftist" is voluntary action? If someone in your group decides not to participate, you are okay with that? Because I have never met or chatted with anyone "on the Left" politically that wasn't also an Authoritarian.
Merrill wrote:Everything Jesus taught is for each Person to choose for themselves to love their neighbor.
by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:30 pm
Kiu Ghesik wrote:Merrill wrote:
Kiu, are you saying that your definition of "Leftist" is voluntary action? If someone in your group decides not to participate, you are okay with that? Because I have never met or chatted with anyone "on the Left" politically that wasn't also an Authoritarian.
To counter your point: Social democrats, anarcho-communists, and just a large percentage of anti-capitalists in general would object to being called authoritarian. I've probably missed more than a few other ideologies disproving your point.Merrill wrote:Everything Jesus taught is for each Person to choose for themselves to love their neighbor.
I could argue, if I wanted to, that the current capitalist system prevents people from effectively being able to choose to love their neighbor due to the requirements it places, and thus that overthrowing said system and replacing it with another would be an act of loving one's neighbor.
I'm not going to, just throwing it out there.
by Kowani » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:34 pm
Merrill wrote:Kiu Ghesik wrote:To counter your point: Social democrats, anarcho-communists, and just a large percentage of anti-capitalists in general would object to being called authoritarian. I've probably missed more than a few other ideologies disproving your point.
I could argue, if I wanted to, that the current capitalist system prevents people from effectively being able to choose to love their neighbor due to the requirements it places, and thus that overthrowing said system and replacing it with another would be an act of loving one's neighbor.
I'm not going to, just throwing it out there.
Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
by Punished UMN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:36 pm
Merrill wrote:Kiu Ghesik wrote:To counter your point: Social democrats, anarcho-communists, and just a large percentage of anti-capitalists in general would object to being called authoritarian. I've probably missed more than a few other ideologies disproving your point.
I could argue, if I wanted to, that the current capitalist system prevents people from effectively being able to choose to love their neighbor due to the requirements it places, and thus that overthrowing said system and replacing it with another would be an act of loving one's neighbor.
I'm not going to, just throwing it out there.
Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
by Disgraces » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:39 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Merrill wrote:
Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
God strikes a man dead in the New Testament for not giving his money to the community. How is that not a tax?
by Kiu Ghesik » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:39 pm
Merrill wrote:Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
by Washington Resistance Army » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:40 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Merrill wrote:
Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
God strikes a man dead in the New Testament for not giving his money to the community. How is that not a tax?
by Land Without Shrimp » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:41 pm
Punished UMN wrote:God strikes a man dead in the New Testament for not giving his money to the community. How is that not a tax?
by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:42 pm
Kowani wrote:Merrill wrote:
Social Democracy is still government taking by force from one person to give to another. Nothing Christ-like there. Just because 51% vote for something doesn't make it moral.
Please provide an example of how Capitalism, or the Free Market prevents people from loving their neighbor. The more wealth I have, the more good I can do, if I choose to do so.
Capitalism promotes greed and atomism, it destroys social fabrics and makes you less likely to support helping that neighbor.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:43 pm
by Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:43 pm
Land Without Shrimp wrote:Punished UMN wrote:God strikes a man dead in the New Testament for not giving his money to the community. How is that not a tax?
I hate to be that guy but...if you're referring to Ananias (and his wife Saphira!) in Acts 5, they were not put to death for not giving money to the community. They were put to death for lying to God about how much they were contributing. It's a chilling story.
by Kowani » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:44 pm
Merrill wrote:Kowani wrote:Capitalism promotes greed and atomism, it destroys social fabrics and makes you less likely to support helping that neighbor.
https://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1
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