This would have more weight if Biden wasn’t a Catholic himself.
But he is, so smear discarded.
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by Kowani » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:53 am
by Chan Island » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:02 am
Page wrote:Aclion wrote:Trump isn't hostile to Christians. The Christian lobby isn't as influential as it used to be so they're willing to settle for that.
No one is hostile to Christians in America.
There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.
But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted. I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians by people who neglected to mention that Christians account for 75% of the population and close to 99% of government, but I have no idea why so many have failed to get over this delusion, ranting about Obama (also a Christian) waging war on Christmas. And then they vote for Trump, saying he will save religious liberty. So a pharmacist can refuse to do their damn job but still expect to be paid, so the cake bakers won't be forced to serve the gays.
Don't think I'm ranting at you specifically but just seeing the words "hostile to Christians" really pisses me off because American Christians who think they're under attack are full of shit, like a rich kid saying "I have been through real pain, last year I had to fly coach to Aspen."
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Punished UMN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:03 am
by The Marlborough » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:12 am
Uh, yes there are. It's not exactly hard to find people who despise Christianity. Heck, Youtube was inundated with fedora anti-theists and anti-religious figures for quite some time. I should know, I was part of that crowd for awhile.
These aren't the only forms of hostility. We should be thankful that nothing like that occurs in the West but that doesn't mean there isn't hostility. Heck, ACB's appointments were tinged with insinuations that should shouldn't be a judge because she's a devout Catholic.There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.
This is blatantly false. Catholics have literally been lynched at times in American history and the earliest anti-immigration movements were largely driven by anti-Catholicism.But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted.
If you do try to stick to a number of Christian beliefs and values in largely liberal areas, you do run a very high chance of being ostracized.I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians
by Zandilund » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:15 am
Glen Ellyn wrote:Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God
by Zandilund » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:21 am
by Major-Tom » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:22 am
by Land Without Shrimp » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:24 am
by Major-Tom » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:25 am
The Marlborough wrote:Uh, yes there are. It's not exactly hard to find people who despise Christianity. Heck, Youtube was inundated with fedora anti-theists and anti-religious figures for quite some time. I should know, I was part of that crowd for awhile.Page wrote:
No one is hostile to Christians in America.These aren't the only forms of hostility. We should be thankful that nothing like that occurs in the West but that doesn't mean there isn't hostility. Heck, ACB's appointments were tinged with insinuations that should shouldn't be a judge because she's a devout Catholic.There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.This is blatantly false. Catholics have literally been lynched at times in American history and the earliest anti-immigration movements were largely driven by anti-Catholicism.But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted.If you do try to stick to a number of Christian beliefs and values in largely liberal areas, you do run a very high chance of being ostracized.I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians
by Punished UMN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:27 am
Land Without Shrimp wrote:As someone who is a Christian and is exposed to many different Christian perspectives/arguments, a few points that I will write out (since I feel I've heard it all these past few months!!). I'm not saying these are my arguments!! I just thought it may be helpful if I expressed what I've heard:
1) As has already been posted up-thread, many Christians do not support him. Only some do.
2) In America, abortion is a very big deal to a large subset of Christians. Often, this is the issue that will determine which way the vote will go. Hence why some Christians vote Republican, even if they are not rich or privileged. Any candidate who is in favor of abortion will draw their ire. A candidate who speaks against abortion will have a better chance of getting their vote.
3) Many of the Christians who have said they will vote for Trump do so reluctantly. They acknowledge he is not an ideal candidate or even a moral individual, but he's "better than the alternative". This is the "lesser of two evils" paradigm. Again, remember how much some Christians hate abortion.
Now that's some of what I've heard expressed at various times from various Christians (prominent and not). For my own opinion, what really disturbs me most as a Christian is the lack of love shown by many throughout this election season. Politics for sure brings out the worst in so many people. I've seen people on both ends of the political spectrum make a practice of dehumanizing the other side, of "othering" those who are "voting for the other guy". Both sides have contributed to this, from Trump's nationalistic rabble-rousing and shrill denunciations of the media and Democrats as idiots and fools...to the left-wing characterization of all Trump-voters as sexist, racist, bigoted haters. One line I've seen over and over (from both sides) is, "If you vote for Trump/Biden, that means you are ok with...[fill in the blank]." "If you're voting for Biden, that means you're ok with murdering babies!!" or... "if you're voting for Trump, that means you're ok with children being separated from their parents!!" This kind of rhetoric is most disingenuous as well as just contributing to the terrible partisan divide in this country. I do weep for our country's future.
I think all voters should be able to vote their conscience, and so I understand that some Christians are passionate enough about the anti-abortion movement to make that the basis for their vote and can understand that doesn't necessarily mean they like the man. On the other hand, I can understand that some Christians are (rightfully) horrified at the speech and character of the president and so cannot in good conscience vote for such a...(insert your choice of derogatory term here!)
Sorry for the length of this post here, just thought it may be helpful for someone "inside the camp" of evangelical Christianity to write up some of what I've heard and experienced.
by Land Without Shrimp » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am
Punished UMN wrote:In addition to this, I think a lot of people are unfortunately letting the politics of Trump usurp their initial intentions for voting for him, and are no longer doing so reluctantly. That some quite literally say he was chosen by God is a disturbing development in a lot of ways.
by Punished UMN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:38 am
Land Without Shrimp wrote:Punished UMN wrote:In addition to this, I think a lot of people are unfortunately letting the politics of Trump usurp their initial intentions for voting for him, and are no longer doing so reluctantly. That some quite literally say he was chosen by God is a disturbing development in a lot of ways.
Ugh, don't even get me started on that. Besides veering dangerously close to idolatry, it's very, very disturbing to exhibit that kind of hero-worship for a political figure, especially someone like Trump. And to assign him "divine mandate" or what-have-you...it sickens me. Because then, he can't do anything wrong!!! Right...??? Ugh.
There are a lot of Christians that lack discernment and have gotten swept up in this tribal war. It's really disheartening.
by Feklarnia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:48 am
The Marlborough wrote:Uh, yes there are. It's not exactly hard to find people who despise Christianity. Heck, Youtube was inundated with fedora anti-theists and anti-religious figures for quite some time. I should know, I was part of that crowd for awhile.Page wrote:
No one is hostile to Christians in America.These aren't the only forms of hostility. We should be thankful that nothing like that occurs in the West but that doesn't mean there isn't hostility. Heck, ACB's appointments were tinged with insinuations that should shouldn't be a judge because she's a devout Catholic.There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.This is blatantly false. Catholics have literally been lynched at times in American history and the earliest anti-immigration movements were largely driven by anti-Catholicism.But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted.If you do try to stick to a number of Christian beliefs and values in largely liberal areas, you do run a very high chance of being ostracized.I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians
by The Archregimancy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:49 am
by Washington Resistance Army » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:52 am
Feklarnia wrote:The Marlborough wrote:Uh, yes there are. It's not exactly hard to find people who despise Christianity. Heck, Youtube was inundated with fedora anti-theists and anti-religious figures for quite some time. I should know, I was part of that crowd for awhile.
These aren't the only forms of hostility. We should be thankful that nothing like that occurs in the West but that doesn't mean there isn't hostility. Heck, ACB's appointments were tinged with insinuations that should shouldn't be a judge because she's a devout Catholic.
This is blatantly false. Catholics have literally been lynched at times in American history and the earliest anti-immigration movements were largely driven by anti-Catholicism. If you do try to stick to a number of Christian beliefs and values in largely liberal areas, you do run a very high chance of being ostracized.
the KKK isn't anti-catholic for no reason after all
by Kiu Ghesik » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:54 am
Chan Island wrote:Page wrote:
No one is hostile to Christians in America.
There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.
But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted. I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians by people who neglected to mention that Christians account for 75% of the population and close to 99% of government, but I have no idea why so many have failed to get over this delusion, ranting about Obama (also a Christian) waging war on Christmas. And then they vote for Trump, saying he will save religious liberty. So a pharmacist can refuse to do their damn job but still expect to be paid, so the cake bakers won't be forced to serve the gays.
Don't think I'm ranting at you specifically but just seeing the words "hostile to Christians" really pisses me off because American Christians who think they're under attack are full of shit, like a rich kid saying "I have been through real pain, last year I had to fly coach to Aspen."
Which does raise a good point.
Christians and Christianity has and continues to enjoy overwhelming supremacy in the political, cultural and economic sphere of the United States... yet large numbers of Christians sincerely believe themselves to be persecuted. It's justified by a combination of obviously false allegations that certain political figures aren't Christian and by pointing to the few times secular law (a priority for the founding fathers, but that's often forgotten) actually prevails over their dogma.
And they believe they persecuted so intensely that they will vote for the least Christian man to have ever sat in the oval office in order to... what? Continue their hegemony over the political sphere? Rout out the last few bastions of secularism so that they can finally have a full on theocracy?
That is a question I'll be sure to check back in on to look out for.
by Turelisa- » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:06 am
by Vu Den Voc » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:13 am
Terra Unification wrote:i dont know much, but from what i read. its because trump foreign policy especially about us embassy that move to jerussalem. majority of american christian is evangelical, and they believe that nation who fight for israel its gonna be blessed. and they believe that the rise of israel is signify the end of the world
by Turelisa- » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:25 am
Vu Den Voc wrote:Terra Unification wrote:i dont know much, but from what i read. its because trump foreign policy especially about us embassy that move to jerussalem. majority of american christian is evangelical, and they believe that nation who fight for israel its gonna be blessed. and they believe that the rise of israel is signify the end of the world
Ok i don't want to sound I'm against Jews (im not) however the whole supporting iseral all the time has policy is not good for me. See if you look at the history of isreal, Britain screwed everything up by putting the Jews there, and taking the land from Palestine. There were Jewish terrorists who killed innocent people. Why did you think Islam terrorism exists? To combat Jewish terrorism. The reason why America is so one sided on this is one Christianity comes from the Jewish religion and two because of 9/11. I think instead of taking one person's side, we should stay neutral and promote peace generally, which is the opposite of what trump has been doing.
by Vu Den Voc » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:29 am
Turelisa- wrote:Vu Den Voc wrote:
Ok i don't want to sound I'm against Jews (im not) however the whole supporting iseral all the time has policy is not good for me. See if you look at the history of isreal, Britain screwed everything up by putting the Jews there, and taking the land from Palestine. There were Jewish terrorists who killed innocent people. Why did you think Islam terrorism exists? To combat Jewish terrorism. The reason why America is so one sided on this is one Christianity comes from the Jewish religion and two because of 9/11. I think instead of taking one person's side, we should stay neutral and promote peace generally, which is the opposite of what trump has been doing.
If a Christian theonomy is to be established anywhere, it should be in the Holy Land. It's a pity the Kingdom of Jerusalem fell in the twelfth century, because if it had been extant during the Reformation, it might have eventually been replaced by a theonomic republic.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:32 am
by Senkaku » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:32 am
The Marlborough wrote:Uh, yes there are. It's not exactly hard to find people who despise Christianity. Heck, Youtube was inundated with fedora anti-theists and anti-religious figures for quite some time. I should know, I was part of that crowd for awhile.Page wrote:
No one is hostile to Christians in America.
These aren't the only forms of hostility. We should be thankful that nothing like that occurs in the West but that doesn't mean there isn't hostility. Heck, ACB's appointments were tinged with insinuations that should shouldn't be a judge because she's a devout Catholic.There's hostility toward Christians in Sudan where Christians born to Muslim families can be executed for apostasy, there's hostility toward Assyrian Christians who have been forced to flee their homes, there's hostility toward Christians in North Korea.
This is blatantly false. Catholics have literally been lynched at times in American history and the earliest anti-immigration movements were largely driven by anti-Catholicism.But not a single Christian who lives in America has ever been persecuted.If you do try to stick to a number of Christian beliefs and values in largely liberal areas, you do run a very high chance of being ostracized.I went to Christian school, I grew up being told that we'd be outcasts for being Christians
by Stylan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:34 am
by United Hemand Insia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:35 am
by Kiu Ghesik » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:36 am
Senkaku wrote:Is that so? Which beliefs, exactly? I've yet to see anyone ostracized for going to church or praying, but stoning gays will probably get you ostracized, it's true.
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