Why do Some Christians support Trump?

[Punished UMN]

His Eminence is one of 13 Cardinal members of the Supreme Tribunal, which is the highest judicial authority of the Roman Catholic Church. That makes him one of the most important figures in the Catholic Church, so his word carries a shitload of weight.

Doesn't mean he's not a Catholic though, just that part of the Church denounced him. Considering the moral judgement of said Church across history, I wouldn't take it as too damning.

It doesn't mean he's not Catholic, correct, but it does mean he is not in good standing as a Catholic, which is the point in question, not whether this makes him a good or bad person.

[Albrenia]

Doesn't mean he's not a Catholic though, just that part of the Church denounced him. Considering the moral judgement of said Church across history, I wouldn't take it as too damning.

It doesn't mean he's not Catholic, correct, but it does mean he is not in good standing as a Catholic, which is the point in question, not whether this makes him a good or bad person.

Fair enough, I'll give you that.

[Wahlid]

Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God

Christian identity politics, plain and simple. The US Republican Party has relied on White Christian voters (particularly whites who are evangelical Protestant) to win elections for the last 40ish years now, and has done an amazing job getting people to vote for them because of abortion.

[Idzequitch]

It comes down to this. For many American Christians, Republicanism and more recently Trumpism has essentially replaced Christianity as their primary religion. Not in a literal sense obviously. But their belief in Republican politics trumps (pun intended) any belief in the God of Christianity.

lol you have this entirely mixed up

Lol no I don't. Say something substantive for me to respond to please.

It comes down to this. For many American Christians, Republicanism and more recently Trumpism has essentially replaced Christianity as their primary religion. Not in a literal sense obviously. But their belief in Republican politics trumps (pun intended) any belief in the God of Christianity.

It did that a long time ago.

Is the 80's really that long ago?

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Same reason I support him. He is a means to an end.

A means to what end? Fulfilling your desire for culture war?

Putting radical Third Wave feminists, BLM racists, Islamists and Muslim fundamentalists, stealth antisemites masquerading as anti-Zionists, communists, Antifa thugs, illegal immigrants who disrespect the rule of law and national sovereignty by entering a country illegally, morally bankrupt, corporate, neoliberal bigwigs, clueless celebrities, fake news media, and the CCP in their rightful place. Annihilating wokism as a political force. Exposing these anti-free speech leftists, illiberal Muslim theocrats, and the pampered, establishment, neoliberal influencers who regularly pander to the first two groups for what they really are by pushing all of their buttons and trolling them all the way to the moon and back. Standing with Israel, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, upholding due process for men, eliminating affirmative action and systemic racism against white and Asian students, cracking down on tech censorship, upholding judicial independence, banning the teaching of critical race theory in public institutions, etc. etc.

TL;DR: Draining the Swamp.

But I'm not Christian or socially conservative, so I'm in no position to answer the OP's question.

Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God

This thread has tons of leftist prejudice and ignorance. If the person that started the thread is genuinely trying to understand and is addressing Trump voters, all the leftist derangement and insults are quite frankly, sheer humiliation and trolling. I thought the Mods were against that sort of thing.......
This is a conversation desired with Trump voters, so allow THEM to have it with Glen.

1. First of all, christians don't vote 'christian'. Christians in the US understand they live in a constitutional republic and not in a theocracy. Be they catholic liberals in NY or conservative mormons in Utah.

2. Christians tend to be conservative and conservatives tend to vote republican. I really do not understand where the grounds for astonishment are...

3. Further to the issue of religion: I believe that the atheist left (I am an atheist myself), having lost any moral guidance, and having become nihilistic to the core, thanks to post-modern constructivism/relativism, is now the political faction in the USA behaving the most religiously and fanatically. Screaming to the sky, cancel-culture, ideological censorship and an overall slide into autistic intolerance, convey the reality that the Left has become completely totalitarian, having transformed left-wing politics into a religion itself. Anyone against left-wing politics is a heretic and must burn ...for the sake of tolerance, of course..................

4. Trump, quite candidly, adressed the evangelicals and owned up to his own faults and personality: he said that, as they very well knew, he was not the most religious person but that as a candidate, his platform would seek to take their concerns into consideration.

5. The alternative - for a christian - at the moment, could not be starker: it is either the corrupt establishment, its obsession with useless military interventions and the very much anti-christian, cultural marxist cult, or Trump. Trump is a reasonable, centrist moderate. He is interested in making the country prosperous and tolerant. Biden used to be a centrist but today he is not only not going to be around for long, he is also dependent on the extreme left for support.

5.1 The Left is divided into the centrist corporatists, the old school big government socialists and the new trotskyist/marcusian iconclastic cult. The centrist corporatists, afraid of lacking socialist bona fides, have allied themselves to the these modern day young anarchists against the socialists. This is why big corporations all display the rainbow flag and scream BLM, in the XXI century, something utterly bizarre seeing as US society has never been more tolerant than right now. This is because they no longer separate private from public life and because placating the young extremists is the only way they believe they can carry on with business as usual.

For all these reasons, any voter informed by christian ethics could only possibly vote for Trump.

No doubt the Pope Francis types will vote Biden but until those people are forced to kiss the shoes of black people or see their businesses burned by the deranged mob, they will go on believing the CNN MSNBC propaganda...

I agree with what you've said about the Left, and I'm a liberal atheist myself.

[Nova Palatinia]

For the same reason some atheists support Biden.

You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism. Compared to Trump who claims to be Christian but has had 3 wives, had an affair with a porn star, and by his own admission wants to get with his daughter.

Yeah, no. Several bishops and priests have stated that due to his position on abortion, he is not in good standing with the Church, and cannot receive Communion. By our dogmas, if he receives Communion, he is damning himself, and whichever priest administers the sacrament.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

[The Alma Mater]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

[Old Tyrannia]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

In fairness, excommunication is a fairly grave matter from a Roman Catholic perspective. Traditionally a person who died whilst excommunicated would be considered damned for eternity, which is rather more serious than spending time in jail. The fact that most modern Catholics in developed countries tend to be more liberal in their interpretation of their religion somewhat undermines the power that the threat of excommunication once held, however.

[Punished UMN]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

I hadn't seen anyone treating excommunication as that. Anathemizing is the ultimate punishment and is only really for those convicted of heresy.

[Manokan Republic]

For the same reason why everyone else supports him; he's not as bad as many people make him out to be. It's as simple as that. What you are getting is information on a political figure, filtered through the lense of his opposing political enemies, and you make the mistake of taking this as fact, just because they call themselves a news organization or a fact-checker (many have gone to court and had this explicitly disproven, such as CNN or MSNBC which claim to be entertainment). There is no law that makes all forms of lying illegal, only in specific circumstances, and some people have gotten sued for lying anyways. Just as you should take the criticism of Obama by extreme right-wing sources with a grain of salt, so too should you do the same with left-wing sources on Trump, even though many are mainstream. It's about checking your own biases and not believing every piece of hype without solid, hard evidence.

The Mueller report for example cleared Trump of any connection to Russia, and only left the idea of obstruction of justice up in the air, only because a president has never been charged with it ever and there is no law on the books to do it. There's no way to determine if a lawful action by the president can constitute a crime, since there is no law about this on the books. Yet many will still say he is a Russian spy. The more you look in to things, the more you will realize it's not just hyped up, but frequently outright lies supposedly claiming he is some kind of evil monster. Another example is that under Biden and Obama, they locked up kids in cages, and Trump explicitly ended this via executive order, yet he gets blamed for it, and the left is voting for Biden despite him actually doing it, and Trump ending it. Trump is evil for putting kids in cages but also it was actually Biden. Vote Biden! This kind of problem is reoccurring in politics. It's really easy to lie, so it's worth it to check in to things, and media organizations often have no obligation to tell the truth and are paid not to.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

Excommunication is certainly a very grave penalty, reserved for a limited number of offences under canon law. Allow me to cite section 1463 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.

As to whether it is worse than jail time... that depends on who you ask. Those who are excommunicated are, as described above, denied the reception of the sacraments. For someone who is a Catholic this will be a grave penalty, and I would certainly see it as worse than jail time. (Realistically, the Church cannot "punish" those who don't believe. They may use severe penalties, but if someone doesn't believe, he won't mind - until, according to Catholic belief, he faces the consequences after he passes away.)

My comment wasn't to say it is not a grave penalty, but that it is not a vindictive one, i.e. a "punishment"—penalties in the Catholic Church are medicinal, meant to serve as means of ensuring that people repent. As to priests found guilty of child abuse, they would be laicized and excommunicated, but that does not serve as an alternative to a punishment deemed necessary by the civil authorities, nor should any Catholic claim it does (given that the penalties of the civil authority are entirely different in nature, i.e. not medicinal, from the Church's). But it is true that excommunication and laicizing a priest is the ultimate penalty the Catholic Church can impose on a priest.

See also the following quote from canon lawyer Ms Cathy Caridi's article on the issue (I couldn't copy from the site so here's a screenshot):

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

In fairness, excommunication is a fairly grave matter from a Roman Catholic perspective. Traditionally a person who died whilst excommunicated would be considered damned for eternity, which is rather more serious than spending time in jail. The fact that most modern Catholics in developed countries tend to be more liberal in their interpretation of their religion somewhat undermines the power that the threat of excommunication once held, however.

I agree with most of the above, but I don't think the threat of excommunication has become less powerful to Catholics overall. The penalty was never meant to be permanent, nor be a "punishment", but to encourage people to repent. I would in fact argue that the liberalisation has lead to excommunication being used more rarely than before, hence making it a more powerful penalty.

[Salus Maior]

Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many in such a spectacular fashion.

It's not about "my type" of Catholicism. It's just Catholicism.

And you certainly don't know what you're talking about, at the very least. Why does it matter to you in the first place whether Biden is a nominal Catholic or not?

My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?

You're right. He didn't.

What's your point?

[Salus Maior]

I don't recall the Communist Manifesto existing in the first century AD.

I don't recall the bible endorsing neo-liberalist capitalism either

Indeed. Which is why Jesus can't be described as a liberal, a capitalist, a communist, or whatever anachronistic label people want to attach to Him.

[Salus Maior]

As to the discussions whether Biden should be denied communion: I imagine that the actual decision on this will be made by The Most Rev. Wilton Daniel Gregory, Cardinal-designate and Archbishop of Washington. I somewhat expect Biden not to be denied communion.

The discussion is more complicated that people want it to be, but my main problem is that too often, Catholics seem to want those politicians to be excommunicated, and treat is as a punishment, which it is not; it's supposed to help people re-unite with the Church.

Really ? Several of the catholics here have been presenting excommunication as the ultimate punishment, far worse than jail time, and as such entirely fitting for the childmolesting priests and their accomplishes/enablers.

Sad to hear they were lying, but not unexpected.

It's a serious thing to be in a state of excommunication because one would be excluded from participating in the Church and receiving the sacraments, at least until one repents.

But you are right, abusive priests and their enablers should absolutely receive excommunication and defrocking immediately upon a guilty verdict.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?

You're right. He didn't.

What's your point?

Well, if Jesus never said anything in support/opposition to X, you cannot support/oppose X as a Christian.

Also, remember that Jesus Never Said ANYTHING About Felony Home Invasion, so Christians cannot have an opinion on it either, or they're fake Christians.

[Punished UMN]

Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many in such a spectacular fashion.

It's not about "my type" of Catholicism. It's just Catholicism.

And you certainly don't know what you're talking about, at the very least. Why does it matter to you in the first place whether Biden is a nominal Catholic or not?

I think NHA's hang up is that he was likely raised Evangelical and doesn't realize that, unlike Evangelical churches, the Roman Catholic Church is a hierarchical organization with a strict set of rules and by-laws (Canon Law) that one has to follow to be a member, and that it has official leaders who enforce these rules.

[Odreria]

You're right. He didn't.

What's your point?

Well, if Jesus never said anything in support/opposition to X, you cannot support/oppose X as a Christian.

Also, remember that Jesus Never Said ANYTHING About Felony Home Invasion, so Christians cannot have an opinion on it either, or they're fake Christians.

I think you greatly misunderstand the nature of Christianity.

[Punished UMN]

Well, if Jesus never said anything in support/opposition to X, you cannot support/oppose X as a Christian.

Also, remember that Jesus Never Said ANYTHING About Felony Home Invasion, so Christians cannot have an opinion on it either, or they're fake Christians.

I think you greatly misunderstand the nature of Christianity.

I think he was being facetious.

[Manokan Republic]

My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?

Actually Jesus did support fighting people in the middle east and openly advocated taking prisoners of war and slaves in general.

But we didn't fight for oil, in fact U.S. companies aren't even getting any oil from Iraq, and Trump ended the family separation at the border via executive order, of which the "kids in cages" thing comes from the Obama-Biden administration, something which can be easily verified, and many media sources even uses pictures from 2014 to attack Trump. [1][2][3] You've been hoodwinked, as has half of America. With an increase in DNA testing among other things, human trafficking of Children has been greatly reduced, which presumably is a good thing, as anyone who comes here illegally should not be allowed in if only due to the fear they may spread disease or be trafficking people with them. Trafficking drugs and weapons is likely a major problem too.

We didn't go to war with the entire middle east, we overthrew dictators and replaced them with democracies, for various reasons, including support of terrorism and mass murder, in specific countries. The majorities of the deaths occurred before our invasions due to the previous ongoing wars, such as in Iraq or Afghanistan, which was part of the reason why we invaded. The semantic trickery used is to imply that because half a million people died in "The Iraq war", that it retroactively becomes the U.S.'s fault, but most of the deaths occurred from the start of the 2nd An-fal genocide campaign by Saddam starting from 1999, when we invaded in 2003. So they ex-post-facto try to blame the U.S. for deaths that occurred before we invaded, and blame it on the invasion by redefining the start of the war as being the date of the U.S. invasion, when the war starts due to Saddam years before this and they include deaths from that in with the new definition. It's the dodging and weaving between the two terms and being intentionally vague that tricks people in to thinking we killed them, when even wikileaks only ever claimed the U.S. killed 14,075 civilians out of the nearly 500,000 total, and that was still an overestimate they later withdrew. Furthermore most of the weapons used in the middle east are of soviet or chinese origin, Iraq specifically using Yugoslavian weapons like the N-PAP, so we didn't arm them or create them either, they were socialist, soviet-backed dictatorships. Donald Trump has been making peace deals in the middle east, so I hardly see how this is relevant anyways, though.

[The Alma Mater]

You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism.

It's funny that literally the only people saying this are non-Catholics.

Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, a nominal Catholic. A fully conscientious Catholic would never so enthusiastically back the Democrat position on abortion.

Vote for him if you want, I don't begrudge anyone that. But don't make him into something he's not.

Do you agree he is "more" Catholic than Trump ?

[Salus Maior]

It's funny that literally the only people saying this are non-Catholics.

Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, a nominal Catholic. A fully conscientious Catholic would never so enthusiastically back the Democrat position on abortion.

Vote for him if you want, I don't begrudge anyone that. But don't make him into something he's not.

Do you agree he is "more" Catholic than Trump ?

He was at the very least baptized. So technically yes.

But then again, so are a lot of people that I wouldn't honestly call a "Catholic vote" as it were. I don't consider Trump the "Catholic vote" either.

[Salus Maior]

Actually Jesus did support fighting people in the middle east and openly advocated taking prisoners of war and slaves in general.

He didn't, actually. That's just absurdly incorrect.

[Punished UMN]

Do you agree he is "more" Catholic than Trump ?

He was at the very least baptized. So technically yes.

But then again, so are a lot of people that I wouldn't honestly call a "Catholic vote" as it were. I don't consider Trump the "Catholic vote" either.

^This, it's not an either/or determination.