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Why do Some Christians support Trump?

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The Sovereign Realist State
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Sovereign Realist State » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:48 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Jesus was not communist you know...


I'd disagree, but it's not relevant to the discussion.



The Sovereign Realist State wrote:Politicians are not priests - at least for ideologies that are not on the Left.



DING DING DING BIIIINGO!!!

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:3. Further to the issue of religion: I believe that the atheist left (I am an atheist myself), having lost any moral guidance, and having become nihilistic to the core, thanks to post-modern constructivism/relativism, is now the political faction in the USA behaving the most religiously and fanatically. Screaming to the sky, cancel-culture, ideological censorship and an overall slide into autistic intolerance, convey the reality that the Left has become completely totalitarian, having transformed left-wing politics into a religion itself. Anyone against left-wing politics is a heretic and must burn ...for the sake of tolerance, of course..................

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Odreria
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Odreria » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:49 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:Again, politics is not religion. Politicians are not priests - at least for ideologies that are not on the Left.

I suspect the mullahs would disagree

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:50 pm

New haven america wrote:
Diarcesia wrote:For the same reason some atheists support Biden.

You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism.


It's funny that literally the only people saying this are non-Catholics.

Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, a nominal Catholic. A fully conscientious Catholic would never so enthusiastically back the Democrat position on abortion.

Vote for him if you want, I don't begrudge anyone that. But don't make him into something he's not.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:50 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Jesus was not communist you know...


I'd disagree, but it's not relevant to the discussion.


I don't recall the Communist Manifesto existing in the first century AD.
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“No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it. The real conflict is the inner conflict. Beyond armies of occupation and the hecatombs of extermination camps, there are two irreconcilable enemies in the depth of every soul: good and evil, sin and love. And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?”
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:53 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism.


It's funny that literally the only people saying this are non-Catholics.

Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, a nominal Catholic. A fully conscientious Catholic would never so enthusiastically back the Democrat position on abortion.

Vote for him if you want, I don't begrudge anyone that. But don't make him into something he's not.

Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many in such a spectacular fashion.
Last edited by New haven america on Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vashty
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Postby Vashty » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:54 pm

Odreria wrote:
Why do Some Christians support Trump?

They probably agree with his policies and/or think he's doing a good job as president.
Vashty wrote:why do some christians not support trump?

rather open answer to an open question

They probably don't agree with his policies and/or don't think he's doing a good job as president.

/thread


lol i wouldn't know, im not american and an apatheist
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:54 pm

New haven america wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
It's funny that literally the only people saying this are non-Catholics.

Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, a nominal Catholic. A fully conscientious Catholic would never so enthusiastically back the Democrat position on abortion.

Vote for him if you want, I don't begrudge anyone that. But don't make him into something he's not.

Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many.

My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

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Vashty
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Postby Vashty » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:56 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I'd disagree, but it's not relevant to the discussion.


I don't recall the Communist Manifesto existing in the first century AD.


I don't recall the bible endorsing neo-liberalist capitalism either
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Vashty
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Postby Vashty » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:57 pm

Odreria wrote:
New haven america wrote:Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many.

My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.


but if you're baptised and had holy communion you're supposedly one whether you like it or not
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:57 pm

Vashty wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I don't recall the Communist Manifesto existing in the first century AD.


I don't recall the bible endorsing neo-liberalist capitalism either

Pretty sure Jesus has options other than endorsing Ron Paul or Vladimir Lenin, as awesome as they are.
Last edited by Odreria on Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:59 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I'd disagree, but it's not relevant to the discussion.


I don't recall the Communist Manifesto existing in the first century AD.


Not to be a smartass, but if he's the Son of God He's probably aware of everything that's going to happen and has happened, including political ideologies.

I don't think He was a communist, more of a 'don't-be-an-asshole'ist, but meh.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:00 pm

Odreria wrote:
New haven america wrote:Ah yes, "X doesn't follow my type of Christianity so they're not true Christians and anyone who thinks they are has no idea what they're talking about."

Never have I seen a message of love and tolerance go over the heads of so many.

My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:05 pm

New haven america wrote:
Odreria wrote:My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?

did you respond to the wrong post

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Bear Stearns
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:07 pm

New haven america wrote:
Odreria wrote:My dude if you don't believe in Catholic doctrine you're not Catholic.

Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?


Here's a Bible passage:

Trump 20:16
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. But deport him and you never have to feed him nor his anchor babies again."
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:09 pm

Odreria wrote:
New haven america wrote:Last time I checked Jesus didn't support going to war with the Middle East for oil or operating concentration camps.

Pray tell, what passage in the Bible could I find his support for those things?

did you respond to the wrong post

No, I'm asking where in the New Testament does it say wanting to commit atrocities and war crimes makes you a more legitimate Christian than those who don't.

So come on, get to work, vamos mi amigo.
Last edited by New haven america on Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Merrill
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:35 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Albrenia wrote:The topic wasn't where Trump is running for, it's if his behaviour is hypocritical for Christians to support. Caging children for coming from another country seems like something which would make baby Jesus cry, just sayin'.


Fair but it wasn't me to go on tangents here..........

Again, politics is not religion. Politicians are not priests - at least for ideologies that are not on the Left.

Charity is very christian but charity is VOLUNTARY. ILLEGAL immigrants FORCE the local communities to take care of them. That is not voluntary.

Jesus was not communist you know...


+1

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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:38 pm

New haven america wrote:
Diarcesia wrote:For the same reason some atheists support Biden.

You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism. Compared to Trump who claims to be Christian but has had 3 wives, had an affair with a porn star, and by his own admission wants to get with his daughter.


Biden is a dedicated Catholic? https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-cardi ... on-1534898

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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:40 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Jesus was not communist you know...


I'd disagree, but it's not relevant to the discussion.


https://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress ... -jesus.jpg

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:44 pm

To be honest a lot of Christians know jack shit about Trump, they're not watching or reading mainstream news, they're watching God Channel or whatever that skims over actual news to get back to their regular schedule of men waving snakes around or whatever..

..I had a friend who got into a social argument with his aunt and she literally hadn't heard of any of the Trump scandals, most of her comments were along the lines of 'I've never heard this, show me the evidence of this happening', followed by a link in response.
Last edited by Bombadil on Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:46 pm

Merrill wrote:
New haven america wrote:You know Biden's Catholic right?

And is actually dedicated to Catholicism. Compared to Trump who claims to be Christian but has had 3 wives, had an affair with a porn star, and by his own admission wants to get with his daughter.


Biden is a dedicated Catholic? https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-cardi ... on-1534898

1 cardinal in the church doesnt like him

10/10 stellar argument point is destroyed by facts and logic
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:51 pm

New haven america wrote:
Merrill wrote:
Biden is a dedicated Catholic? https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-cardi ... on-1534898

1 cardinal in the church doesnt like him

10/10 stellar argument point is destroyed by facts and logic


He was also denied communion iirc
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:10 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Donald Trump treating a deadly disease as a political issue is killing people. And killing people is intruding on my life. You can't get much worse than that.


He didn't.

It doesn't.

You are free to wear a mask if you want...

Trump reacted quickly to put a lockdown in place when the DNC was still screaming 'raciiiiist' so... Trump is at the very least better than the DNC.

Since the virus did not turn out to be as deadly as initially assumed, he now wants to end the lockdown. Understandable and logical.

Again: nothing prevents you from wearing a mask...

1. He called it a hoax and mocked Biden for wearing a mask.
2. Over 220,000 American lives lost.
3. That doesn't help if no one else does.
4. That lockdown didn't work. Americans could come in from China still, people from China could come in if they had layovers in another country... It was the least secure lockdown and it was too late. Yes. It was racist.
5. Over 220,000 American lives lost. That number can double just this year. How is that not deadly?
6. But if no one else does, it's useless. You think I want to see even one more person die? I do not. But the president can prevent it and I can't. His refusal to do so is murder to me.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:24 pm

New haven america wrote:
Merrill wrote:
Biden is a dedicated Catholic? https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-cardi ... on-1534898

1 cardinal in the church doesnt like him

10/10 stellar argument point is destroyed by facts and logic

His Eminence is one of 13 Cardinal members of the Supreme Tribunal, which is the highest judicial authority of the Roman Catholic Church. That makes him one of the most important figures in the Catholic Church, so his word carries a shitload of weight.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:22 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
New haven america wrote:1 cardinal in the church doesnt like him

10/10 stellar argument point is destroyed by facts and logic

His Eminence is one of 13 Cardinal members of the Supreme Tribunal, which is the highest judicial authority of the Roman Catholic Church. That makes him one of the most important figures in the Catholic Church, so his word carries a shitload of weight.


Doesn't mean he's not a Catholic though, just that part of the Church denounced him. Considering the moral judgement of said Church across history, I wouldn't take it as too damning.

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Arkhane
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Postby Arkhane » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:23 pm

I don't know. Why was Jesus supporting Caesar by paying taxes and tribute?

Just because you abide by the laws set by people you deem disagreeable doesn't mean you completely support them, otherwise Jesus wouldn't bother paying Caesar or giving offerings to the temple controlled by the very same people He criticizes and clashes with on a regular basis.

While Jesus at the time believed that the Roman Empire is an oppressive threat to Jews, He is a pacifist who looked past the infinitesimal worth of this world.

He didn't come to solve the political, social or economic crisis of the world even though many people of the time actually thought He would stay and crown Himself King of an upcoming physical kingdom where He would deliver the Jews from their enemies and care to all their needs by feeding them, healing them, reviving them etc.

But all that miracles are just treating the symptoms of a bigger problem.

He came to provide peace FROM this world, not TO this world, and He fully knows and correctly prophesies that His arrival would cause even more violence, bloodshed and division, more horrific than any that preceded it. His birth alone was followed by the deaths of many innocent infants.

Christ's teachings tell us that all the suffering and deaths here, all the political upheavals and struggles and corruption and machinations are just a fleeting pang. We are here today, and we'll be gone by tomorrow.

So to go back to OP's question. Christians are free to utilize Christ's teachings to interpret and make their own political stances, which social or economic ideology to adhere to. But whether they are correct or not is another matter entirely since Jesus's teachings as a whole isn't really focused on the matters of this world.

Christianity has been around for centuries, and Christians supporting corrupt people or corrupt belief systems, perceived or not, proven or not, has been well documented throughout history.

Christians vote for Trump because they perceived him to be the one championing their cause, or at least having a closer ideal than the other candidate.

If Jesus Himself was here, He wouldn't endorse any political candidate at all and He would still clash horribly with the Church despite being on their side.

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