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Why do Some Christians support Trump?

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Merrill
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Founded: Mar 27, 2020
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:44 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Merrill wrote:Glad I could help :)
Yes, Jesus drove out those that had desecrated the Temple. This was an example of an individual enforcing property rights. The Temple is the House of the Lord. Jesus was declaring Himself as the Son of God, the owner of the property. He did not call for the Romans to use soldiers to clear out the tresspassers, although He would have been His right to do so.

I'm not sure that the Temple scene is an adequate justification of castle doctrine, especially given that the context of the scene most definitely isn't when he declared himself the son of God, an event which occurred both before and after but not during the scene, and since that modern interpretation of the concept of property rights didn't exist in Jesus' day. I'd like to ask you to explain this one, as well:

Matthew 22:21, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". Does this not advocate for a submission to authority, as long as that authority does not permit one from carrying out their obligations as a Christian? And does that not mean that an authority attempting to metaphorically clear the temple- which for the sake of argument we will assume doesn't refer to property rights in the good ol' "get off my property" sense- would be just to do so? For example, a Christian-Socialist government going about a wealth-redistribution project?


He had repeatedly declared Himself as the Son of God all throughout his Ministry, as you said. I don't think it necessary for Him to do so explicitly in every situation. As for property rights not existing at the time, that seems to be quite a reach. The Law of Moses has a great deal to say about how to earn and manage Property, the sacrifice of your property to God, and the punishments of those who steal from others.

If a government actually created wealth, then it could distribute that without being immoral. That has never happened. When Socialists nationalize companies, they are stealing from the creators. When they tax, they are taking by force what someone else earned. When they inflate the money supply, they devalue what money already exists.

If a man robs another man, the Law punishes him. If a mob robs a man, then filters the money through clerks, each taking a bit, and finally a small part goes to "the poor"; why the mob praise themselves, and say that they have done Good. If something is immoral for an individual to do, how is it right for 51% to do?

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:48 pm

Merrill wrote:
Geneviev wrote:The lockdowns could have been over already. They could have been. But look where we are now, seven months later. The worst pandemic in the world. Why? The president doesn't care, he doesn't understand the suffering of the American people. He gets the best medical treatment in the nation and recovers, and then assumes that it's not killing the American people that he should be serving.

Yes, there is evidence. And what is repentance? It comes from confession. Did he confess to his crimes or make excuses? God does not take excuses, we shouldn't either. And that is all Kavanaugh gave us.

We need a better president. We deserve a better president. A president who doesn't read the Bible, who assaults his own people to trespass on a church where he isn't welcome, is not that better president.

Obama was a Christian. He was a real, genuine Christian. So is Biden. They meet my standards, and are excellent leaders and people as well as excellent Christians. Those are the presidents this country deserves.

How on earth do Trump's policies allow anyone to be good? Be fired for your morals, have your faith insulted and degraded, and watch people die for good measure. That's not good, not at all. We deserve better. God gave us better.

Wow, Obama and Biden as genuine Christians... why, because that sat in a church building sometimes? Because they claim to be? Because they say nice words?
There are so many examples of their "unChristian" policies, but I'll limit myself to one: Forcing the Little Sisters of the Poor to pay for "birth control" which was really an abortion (causing the body to reject a fertilized egg)!

That's not abortion, not at all. About 50% of fertilized eggs are rejected, but we don't call that abortion either for a reason. It prevents abortion, and as such, I'm in favor.

And yes, they go to church. They read the Bible, too. They make moral decisions in their lives and ethical decisions in their careers.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:52 pm

Merrill wrote:
Geneviev wrote:The lockdowns could have been over already. They could have been. But look where we are now, seven months later. The worst pandemic in the world. Why? The president doesn't care, he doesn't understand the suffering of the American people. He gets the best medical treatment in the nation and recovers, and then assumes that it's not killing the American people that he should be serving.

Yes, there is evidence. And what is repentance? It comes from confession. Did he confess to his crimes or make excuses? God does not take excuses, we shouldn't either. And that is all Kavanaugh gave us.

We need a better president. We deserve a better president. A president who doesn't read the Bible, who assaults his own people to trespass on a church where he isn't welcome, is not that better president.

Obama was a Christian. He was a real, genuine Christian. So is Biden. They meet my standards, and are excellent leaders and people as well as excellent Christians. Those are the presidents this country deserves.

How on earth do Trump's policies allow anyone to be good? Be fired for your morals, have your faith insulted and degraded, and watch people die for good measure. That's not good, not at all. We deserve better. God gave us better.

Wow, Obama and Biden as genuine Christians... why, because that sat in a church building sometimes? Because they claim to be? Because they say nice words?
There are so many examples of their "unChristian" policies, but I'll limit myself to one: Forcing the Little Sisters of the Poor to pay for "birth control" which was really an abortion (causing the body to reject a fertilized egg)!


Birth control pills don't cause abortions. Thats just objectively false.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:00 pm

Rost Dreadnorramus wrote:Why do Some Christians support Trump? He"s pro life, and is a supporter of the Constitution which garentees the freedom of religion, among other reasons.


Because asking for a Third Term shows he loves the Constitution :roll:

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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:01 pm

snip-

Birth control pills don't cause abortions. Thats just objectively false.[/quote]

Plan B causes the mother to reject the fertilized egg, and the ACA mandated that nuns pay for that.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:04 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Merrill wrote:What is the Role of the President of these United States of America? To protect and defend the Constitution. Trump does that better than Biden. The election is not for a new Messiah.


Trump protects the constitution? Tell that to the peaceful protesters brutalized in Lafayette Square or the Marine Vet beaten down in Portland.

Or the election that he wanted to delay, or the ballots he wanted to get rid of, or the people kidnapped in unmarked vans.
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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:05 pm

snip-

Wow, Obama and Biden as genuine Christians... why, because that sat in a church building sometimes? Because they claim to be? Because they say nice words?
There are so many examples of their "unChristian" policies, but I'll limit myself to one: Forcing the Little Sisters of the Poor to pay for "birth control" which was really an abortion (causing the body to reject a fertilized egg)!

[/quote]That's not abortion, not at all. About 50% of fertilized eggs are rejected, but we don't call that abortion either for a reason. It prevents abortion, and as such, I'm in favor.

And yes, they go to church. They read the Bible, too. They make moral decisions in their lives and ethical decisions in their careers.[/quote]

When a woman miscarries without adverse action on her part, that isn't abortion. When she takes action to kill another human being (fertilized egg is unique human DNA, not part of the mother), that is abortion. Just the same as if someone has a heart attack and dies, that is natural causes; but if someone gives a shot that causes another to die from a heart attack, that is murder.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:06 pm

Merrill wrote:snip-

Birth control pills don't cause abortions. Thats just objectively false.


Plan B causes the mother to reject the fertilized egg, and the ACA mandated that nuns pay for that.[/quote]

I forgot that a single cell that was just fertilized is human.

No brain, no organs but it's human.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:07 pm

Merrill wrote:When a woman miscarries without adverse action on her part, that isn't abortion. When she takes action to kill another human being (fertilized egg is unique human DNA, not part of the mother), that is abortion. Just the same as if someone has a heart attack and dies, that is natural causes; but if someone gives a shot that causes another to die from a heart attack, that is murder.

It isn't even miscarriage. Half of all fertilized eggs, approximately, never implant. If they're all human beings, we're facing a major crisis. Please, get involved and find a way to increase implantation rates if that's what you believe in.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:08 pm

Merrill wrote:When a woman miscarries without adverse action on her part, that isn't abortion. When she takes action to kill another human being (fertilized egg is unique human DNA, not part of the mother), that is abortion. Just the same as if someone has a heart attack and dies, that is natural causes; but if someone gives a shot that causes another to die from a heart attack, that is murder.


You're not one of those folks who think people who indulge in... alone time... are mass murderers are you? Because in men's case that most certainly kills a lot of potential humans.

Or is unique DNA now the arbitrary line that God totally said?

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Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:12 pm

Because when given he choice between a sinner and a party whose platform endorses heresy, the sinner is still preferable.
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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:13 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Merrill wrote:snip-

Birth control pills don't cause abortions. Thats just objectively false.


Plan B causes the mother to reject the fertilized egg, and the ACA mandated that nuns pay for that.


I forgot that a single cell that was just fertilized is human.

No brain, no organs but it's human.[/quote]

Well, what else is it? It has it's own, unique human DNA. There is no medical difference between what a fertilized egg needs in order to grow and what a newborn needs.

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Asterix and Obelix
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Postby Asterix and Obelix » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:16 pm

I am Protestant and I despise him, as does the rest of my family. I don't think it's "Christians" in general, rather the far-right ones against gay marriage and pro banning Muslims.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:16 pm

Merrill wrote:
Well, what else is it? It has it's own, unique human DNA. There is no medical difference between what a fertilized egg needs in order to grow and what a newborn needs.



Newborns don't need placentas or a uterus.
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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:17 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Merrill wrote:When a woman miscarries without adverse action on her part, that isn't abortion. When she takes action to kill another human being (fertilized egg is unique human DNA, not part of the mother), that is abortion. Just the same as if someone has a heart attack and dies, that is natural causes; but if someone gives a shot that causes another to die from a heart attack, that is murder.


You're not one of those folks who think people who indulge in... alone time... are mass murderers are you? Because in men's case that most certainly kills a lot of potential humans.

Or is unique DNA now the arbitrary line that God totally said?


Not God's line. I don't know that it has been revealed when exactly the spirit enters the body. Even though I'm Christian, I argue against abortion strictly on a scientific basis. Whatever someone does or doesn't do to prevent fertilization is on their conscience. However, once a new human being has been created, the Law should protect that Person from attempts to kill them.

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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:17 pm

Because the fucking Republican Party decided to join up with the Evangelicals in this country and made them believe they're the party of God and anyone who's against them is against Christianity so always make sure to vote Republican if you wanna keep America a good, God faring, Christian society.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:17 pm

Asterix and Obelix wrote:I am Protestant and I despise him, as does the rest of my family. I don't think it's "Christians" in general, rather the far-right ones against gay marriage and pro banning Muslims.


I agree. There are many Christians- who follow the faith better than the far-right Christians- who oppose him and realise he is not at all a religious person.
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Merrill
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Postby Merrill » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:18 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Merrill wrote:
Well, what else is it? It has it's own, unique human DNA. There is no medical difference between what a fertilized egg needs in order to grow and what a newborn needs.



Newborns don't need placentas or a uterus.


You know that there are lot's of methods to prevent fertilization right?

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:18 pm

New haven america wrote:Because the fucking Republican Party decided to join up with the Evangelicals in this country and made them believe they're the party of God and anyone who's against them is against Christianity so always make sure to vote Republican if you wanna keep the America a good, God faring, Christian society.

There are anti-Trump evangelicals who don't appreciate being associated with him all the time.

Other than that, I agree.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:19 pm

Merrill wrote:That's not abortion, not at all. About 50% of fertilized eggs are rejected, but we don't call that abortion either for a reason. It prevents abortion, and as such, I'm in favor.

And yes, they go to church. They read the Bible, too. They make moral decisions in their lives and ethical decisions in their careers.

When a woman miscarries without adverse action on her part, that isn't abortion. When she takes action to kill another human being (fertilized egg is unique human DNA, not part of the mother), that is abortion. Just the same as if someone has a heart attack and dies, that is natural causes; but if someone gives a shot that causes another to die from a heart attack, that is murder.

Nah, if abortion's murder then that should at least be manslaughter or negligent homicide.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:19 pm

Merrill wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:

Newborns don't need placentas or a uterus.


You know that there are lot's of methods to prevent fertilization right?


We were talking about newborns and fertilised eggs, and you said there's no difference between their needs.
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The Sovereign Realist State
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Postby The Sovereign Realist State » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:20 pm

Glen Ellyn wrote:Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God


This thread has tons of leftist prejudice and ignorance. If the person that started the thread is genuinely trying to understand and is addressing Trump voters, all the leftist derangement and insults are quite frankly, sheer humiliation and trolling. I thought the Mods were against that sort of thing.......
This is a conversation desired with Trump voters, so allow THEM to have it with Glen.

1. First of all, christians don't vote 'christian'. Christians in the US understand they live in a constitutional republic and not in a theocracy. Be they catholic liberals in NY or conservative mormons in Utah.

2. Christians tend to be conservative and conservatives tend to vote republican. I really do not understand where the grounds for astonishment are...

3. Further to the issue of religion: I believe that the atheist left (I am an atheist myself), having lost any moral guidance, and having become nihilistic to the core, thanks to post-modern constructivism/relativism, is now the political faction in the USA behaving the most religiously and fanatically. Screaming to the sky, cancel-culture, ideological censorship and an overall slide into autistic intolerance, convey the reality that the Left has become completely totalitarian, having transformed left-wing politics into a religion itself. Anyone against left-wing politics is a heretic and must burn ...for the sake of tolerance, of course..................

4. Trump, quite candidly, adressed the evangelicals and owned up to his own faults and personality: he said that, as they very well knew, he was not the most religious person but that as a candidate, his platform would seek to take their concerns into consideration.

5. The alternative - for a christian - at the moment, could not be starker: it is either the corrupt establishment, its obsession with useless military interventions and the very much anti-christian, cultural marxist cult, or Trump. Trump is a reasonable, centrist moderate. He is interested in making the country prosperous and tolerant. Biden used to be a centrist but today he is not only not going to be around for long, he is also dependent on the extreme left for support.

5.1 The Left is divided into the centrist corporatists, the old school big government socialists and the new trotskyist/marcusian iconclastic cult. The centrist corporatists, afraid of lacking socialist bona fides, have allied themselves to the these modern day young anarchists against the socialists. This is why big corporations all display the rainbow flag and scream BLM, in the XXI century, something utterly bizarre seeing as US society has never been more tolerant than right now. This is because they no longer separate private from public life and because placating the young extremists is the only way they believe they can carry on with business as usual.

For all these reasons, any voter informed by christian ethics could only possibly vote for Trump.

No doubt the Pope Francis types will vote Biden but until those people are forced to kiss the shoes of black people or see their businesses burned by the deranged mob, they will go on believing the CNN MSNBC propaganda...
Last edited by The Sovereign Realist State on Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:22 pm

Merrill wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:

Newborns don't need placentas or a uterus.


You know that there are lot's of methods to prevent fertilization right?

And the Catholic Church is against all of them.

Ironic considering they had no idea how reproduction worked until ~1600-1700's at least.
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Turelisa-
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Postby Turelisa- » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Asterix and Obelix wrote:I am Protestant and I despise him, as does the rest of my family. I don't think it's "Christians" in general, rather the far-right ones against gay marriage and pro banning Muslims.


As I pointed out earlierto a poster making exactly the same remark, to despise a person is not Christian. And as a far-right Christian who is against gay marrIage and would like to live in a Britain where there was no practice of Islam, I don't admire him as a politician or a person as he's steeped in sin, yet I don't 'despise' him.

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Postby New haven america » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:29 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:
Glen Ellyn wrote:Ok, since the election is now a week away, I have a burning question for Pro Trump Christians: Why do you support him? What is Christian about him? I don’t mean to be rude, it’s just that this dilemma has frustrated me for four years, and I need some answers. I would like to hear why Pro Trump Christians support him / believe he is a man of God


This thread has tons of leftist prejudice and ignorance. If the person that started the thread is genuinely trying to understand and is addressing Trump voters, all the leftist derangement and insults are quite frankly, sheer humiliation and trolling. I thought the Mods were against that sort of thing.......
This is a conversation desired with Trump voters, so allow THEM to have it with Glen.

1. First of all, christians don't vote 'christian'. Christians in the US understand they live in a constitutonal republic and not in a theocracy. Be they catholic liberals in NY or conservative mormons in Utah.

2. Christians tend to be conservative and conservatives tend to vote republican. I really do not understand where the grounds for astonishment are...

3. Further to the issue of religion: I believe that the atheist left (I am an atheist myself), having lost any moral guidance, and having become nihilistic to the core, thanks to post-modern constructivistm/relativistm, is now the political faction in the USA behaving the most religiously and fanatically. Screaming to the sky, cancel-culture, ideological censorship and an overall slide into autistic intolerance, convey the reality that the Left has become completely totalitarian, having transformed left-wing politics into a religion itself. Anyone against left-wing politics is a heretic and must burn ...for the sake of tolerance, of course..................

4. Trump, quite candidly, adressed the evangelicals and owned up to his own faults and personality: he said that, as they very well knew, he was not the most religious person but that as a candidate, his platform would seek to take their concerns into consideration.

5. The alternative - for a christian - at the moment, could not be starker: it is either the corrupt establishment, its obsession with useless military interventions and the very much anti-christian, cultural marxist cult, or Trump. Trump is a reasonable, centrist moderate. He is interested in making the country prosperous and tolerant. Biden used to be a centrist but today he is not only not going to be around for long, he is also dependent on the extreme left for support.

5.1 The Left is divided into the centrist corporatists, the old school big government socialists and the new trotskyist/marcusian iconclastic cult. The centrist corporatists, afraid of lacking socialist bona fides, have allied themselves to the these modern day young anarchists against the socialists. This is why big corporations all display the rainbow flag and scream BLM, in the XXI century, something utterly bizarre seeing as US society has never been more tolerant than right now. This is because they no longer separate private from public life and because placating the yound extremists is the only way they believe they can carry on with business as usual.

For all these reasons, any voter informed by christian ethics could only possibly vote for Trump.

No doubt the Pope Francis types will vote Biden but until those people are forced to kiss the shoes of black people or see their businesses burned by the deranged mob, they will go on believing the CNN MSNBC propaganda...

1. A lot of conservative Christian would be very happy if it was though.
2. Actually, they didn't used to as the Republican's hated the Evangelical Christian portion of the population. It wasn't until the late 1900's where the Reps joined up with Evangelicals, beforehand the Reps were just as secular in their beliefs as the Dems are.
3. The left is secular deary. IE being for all beliefs.
4. Which is why he's had 3 wives, had an affair with a porn star, and is constantly saying how he wants to get with his daughter.
5. Trump is a puppet for the Right-Wing extremist organization called the GOP. He's not moderate. Hell, in most of the world most moderate Republicans would be considered right-wing extremists, let alone the GOP.
5 again because for some reason there's 2 5's. WTF are you on about here?
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