Should the State of Jefferson Exist?

[Aureumterra III]

Why?

The US has too many administrative regions as it is.

That’s not a very convincing argument against the creation of a separate entity to represent an otherwise disenfranchised group, that is West Coast conservatives

[Sanghyeok]

The US has too many administrative regions as it is.

That’s not a very convincing argument against the creation of a separate entity to represent an otherwise disenfranchised group, that is West Coast conservatives

Then should there be other states in the Midwest to free the disenfranchised "liberals"? Of course not. You make a PR system like almost every other democracy and keep the current borders.

[Heloin]

Why?

The US has too many administrative regions as it is.

There are reasons for or against, and this one is among the worst of them.

[The New California Republic]

Terrible idea.

Why?

Until I see some economic data in terms of feasibility studies then I'm going to have to default to "terrible idea" as well.

[Aureumterra III]

That’s not a very convincing argument against the creation of a separate entity to represent an otherwise disenfranchised group, that is West Coast conservatives

Then should there be other states in the Midwest to free the disenfranchised "liberals"? Of course not. You make a PR system like almost every other democracy and keep the current borders.

As far as I know, the only disenfranchised people in the American Midwest are the conservatives of Illinois South of Chicago

I may be wrong, I’m not too well versed in the ins and outs of US political geography

[Kanadorika]

I grew up in Los Angeles. When I was 19, I took a job firefighting in Paradise, Butte County (Yes that Paradise). Prior to this I had never even driven past Grapevine into the Central Valley. As a young adult leaving home for the first time, driving through that mountain pass and seeing the seemingly infinite expanse of flat farmland below me was a memorable moment.

Butte County falls squarely within the proposed borders of Jefferson and it was a culture shock moving there. Whereas in LA many people were transplants or second generation immigrants, it's not uncommon to talk to someone up north whose family immigrated during the gold rush. These folks have a strong connection with the land they live on. Obviously they are more conservative than people in the rest of California, but there's also a different way of thinking up there that goes beyond the mere "rural vs urban" mindset.

To angelenos, Northern california almost always means the Bay Area. Anything north of Sacramento might as well not even exist. Even Sacramento gets thought of as some rural hick town when it's a pretty sizeable city. The north gets ignored in public discourse, and this is true with policy as well. To the major cities, northern california is a place to take water from. Many actual issues faced by northeners get ignored on the basis that "hardly anyone lives there anyways so who cares."


Ideologically I do believe Jefferson has a case for independence, but it's the question of would Jefferson be economically viable that makes me hesitate from fully supporting Jefferson.

[Sanghyeok]

The US has too many administrative regions as it is.

There are reasons for or against, and this one is among the worst of them.

What can I say? I'm a strict unitary supporter.

[New haven america]

Are we going back to pre-Civil war days and making new states that agree with certain ideologies? No.

From what I understand, it’s rural farmers being disenfranchised in these states due to urban areas doing all the decision making. It makes sense they would want separation

West Virginia formed because they were against slavery and conservatism (Ironic considering the state's modern day makeup).

East Oregon is just mad because there's nothing better to do over there.

Do you even attempt to make an actual argument in good faith?

No, conservatives don’t need to have their own politistate.

Please elaborate

Funny, I could ask you the same thing.

But I'm not the one who praises Trump's every move despite not living here, so when I say these things it hold a bit more weight because I actually have firsthand experience dealing with Right-Wing American Conservativism and understand how their terrible law ideas and positions would negatively affect America as a whole.

Like for example, did you know that the GOP is trying to get rid of the Pre-existing Conditions clause with healthcare? Meaning that a HC company won't have to treat a person if they got the injury/sickness before joining said company.

[San Lumen]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

[Aureumterra III]

From what I understand, it’s rural farmers being disenfranchised in these states due to urban areas doing all the decision making. It makes sense they would want separation


Do you even attempt to make an actual argument in good faith?


Please elaborate

Funny, I could ask you the same thing.

But I'm not the one who praises Trump's every move despite not living here, so when I say these things it hold a bit more weight because I actually have firsthand experience dealing with Right-Wing American Conservativism and understand how their terrible law ideas and positions would negatively affect America as a whole.

Sure, but I’m not going to take your word for it when you say most people supporting this are doing so just for racism without any sourced statistics

[New haven america]

Funny, I could ask you the same thing.

But I'm not the one who praises Trump's every move despite not living here, so when I say these things it hold a bit more weight because I actually have firsthand experience dealing with Right-Wing American Conservativism and understand how their terrible law ideas and positions would negatively affect America as a whole.

Sure, but I’m not going to take your word for it when you say most people supporting this are doing so just for racism without any sourced statistics

Because that goes against your idealized vision of what the GOP should be vs. what it actually is.

[Dominioan]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

Why should D.C. and Puerto Rico not be states then as well? This is a dumb idea.

[Heloin]

There are reasons for or against, and this one is among the worst of them.

What can I say? I'm a strict unitary supporter.

You could say something that actually helps your point.

[Aureumterra III]

Sure, but I’m not going to take your word for it when you say most people supporting this are doing so just for racism without any sourced statistics

Because that goes against your idealized vision of what the GOP should be vs. what it actually is.

All I’m asking for is proof, this is the internet after all, for all I know you could be someone living in Almaty Kazakshtan and I’d have no way of knowing

[Kanadorika]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

Perhaps the rest of the state should then actually address the unique challenges faced by people who live in Northern California? We can start with looking at the crumbling infrastructure. Few people in the metropolitan areas cared about the poor state of infrastructure in the north until Oroville dam threatened to exploded in 2017 and drown Sacramento in water.

[New haven america]

Because that goes against your idealized vision of what the GOP should be vs. what it actually is.

All I’m asking for is proof, this is the internet after all, for all I know you could be someone living in Almaty Kazakshtan and I’d have no way of knowing

I mean, their own website with their own terrible belief were posted just a page ago.

Or Oregon and it's history with racism.

Or the fact that on the whole NorCal is much more conservative than SoCal.

I can keep bringing in sources if you want, but it's not going to change the fact that Jefferson as a state is founded on conservative and racist ideals.

[Aureumterra III]

All I’m asking for is proof, this is the internet after all, for all I know you could be someone living in Almaty Kazakshtan and I’d have no way of knowing

I mean, their own website with their own terrible belief were posted just a page ago.

Or Oregon and it's history with racism.

Or the fact that on the whole NorCal is much more conservative than SoCal.

I can keep bringing in sources if you want, but it's not going to change the fact that Jefferson as a state is founded on conservative and racist ideals.

None of the sources say most proponents of Jefferson are doing so primarily out of racism, as you claim, in fact, none of the people interviews in the LAtimes article even hint at dogwhistles

[Ethel mermania]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

Look at ny. Do you think the voters in the city represent the people upstate?

[New haven america]

I mean, their own website with their own terrible belief were posted just a page ago.

Or Oregon and it's history with racism.

Or the fact that on the whole NorCal is much more conservative than SoCal.

I can keep bringing in sources if you want, but it's not going to change the fact that Jefferson as a state is founded on conservative and racist ideals.

None of the sources say most proponents of Jefferson are doing so primarily out of racism, as you claim, in fact, none of the people interviews in the LAtimes article even hint at dogwhistles

They literally say the area that Jefferson would take up is much more conservative and has a long history of racism.

It couldn't be any more obvious if it tried.

[New haven america]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

Look at ny. Do you think the voters in the city represent the people upstate?

Most of the time, yeah.

NY is a swing minus NYC is a swing area, and all of the major cities upstate are left-leaning.

[San Lumen]

No it wouldn’t exist. It’s merely a bunch of people who don’t like how the rest of the state votes so they want to pack their bags and leave. That’s not how a democracy works.

Look at ny. Do you think the voters in the city represent the people upstate?

They have representation like everyone else.

[Ethel mermania]

Look at ny. Do you think the voters in the city represent the people upstate?

They have representation like everyone else.

The city gets its way on upstate matters. For better or worse if ny were two states there would be gas franking in the southern tier. City doesn't give a shit that there are no jobs in Binghamton

[San Lumen]

They have representation like everyone else.

The city gets its way on upstate matters. For better or worse if ny were two states there would be gas franking in the southern tier. City doesn't give a shit that there are no jobs in Binghamton

And happens to the blue counties upstate?

[Cannot think of a name]

Pre-WWII they kind of had a point, now it’s just mad libertarians and racists being whiny they have to pay for services and be nice to black people.

Nice strawman

Don’t use terms you don’t understand.

[Celritannia]

They don't deserve it, just by merit of how lazy their flag is:

(Image)

I mean come on, the seal in the middle is just a gold disc with "The Great Seal of State of Jefferson" scrawled on it. Lazy. And yes I get that it dates back to the 1940s but that's no excuse.