Should the State of Jefferson Exist?

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes, I remember meeting a couple of people from eastern Oregon that said people west of the Cascades control the laws of the state and don't get things like why hunting is necessary. Liberals west if the Cascades are very different from eastern Oregon folks. Look at the presidential election results to notice the difference of opinion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Unit ... _in_Oregon

West Virginia was formed because of differences of opinion:

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-y ... t-virginia

[The Archregimancy]

Im not in grade school Im in college
Anyway.....
Yah my chromes being stupid might as well lock this forum and someone get one open that works...

No need to lock.

I wouldn't usually do this, but I've edited in a couple of links to the OP to give you a hand. That gives us enough to keep the thread running. I haven't changed any of your text, only added working links to replace your broken links.


I think we had another thread on this fairly recently, but it's a valid topic for discussion, and this saves us starting a new thread or gravedigging the previous one.

[New haven america]

Yes, I remember meeting a couple of people from eastern Oregon that said people west of the Cascades control the laws of the state and don't get things like why hunting is necessary. Liberals west if the Cascades are very different from eastern Oregon folks. Look at the presidential election results to notice the difference of opinion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Unit ... _in_Oregon

West Virginia was formed because of differences of opinion:

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-y ... t-virginia

West Virginia formed because they were against slavery and conservatism (Ironic considering the state's modern day makeup).

East Oregon is just mad because there's nothing better to do over there.

[The Archregimancy]

Well, I think this enough for me not to support the State of Jefferson:

https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=92 ... ac50d29070

Forgive me for throwing up my hands in despair over the opening editorial drawing a connection between pandemic mask mandates and Martin Niemöller.

That and the author of the opening editorial clearly doesn't know Martin Niemöller's name, and is factually incorrect in ascribing his quote to 'during WWII' rather than immediately after the war. Though points, I suppose, for correctly acknowledging that the United States gained its independence from 'Britain' rather than 'England'.

It would also be fair to note that the advocates of the State of Jefferson are not necessarily representative of conservatives in either the United States or the Pacific Northwest, but rather of a particular subgroup of conservatives. American conservatism is not a hive mind.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

No, conservatives don’t need to have their own politistate.

[Eukaryotic Cells]

This seems like highly glorified gerrymandering to me.

[FutureAmerica]

No. Any new state or division of a state needs to be ratified by all 50 states, so it will never happen.

[Aureumterra III]

Pre-WWII they kind of had a point, now it’s just mad libertarians and racists being whiny they have to pay for services and be nice to black people.

Nice strawman

[Kubra]

No.

Also, it shouldn't be allowed to join Oregon either, people here don't want it.

Whoa whoa whoa let's not get ahead of ourselves. Perhaps Oregon could have it as an insular territory, and then we all win.

[New haven america]

Pre-WWII they kind of had a point, now it’s just mad libertarians and racists being whiny they have to pay for services and be nice to black people.

Nice strawman

lol, Oregon and Washington used to be super fucking racist with laws making it illegal for black people to live here.

And then the Civil Rights Movement and economic boom (Mainly in the fashion and tech industries) happened and most of the racists were exiled to Idaho, but there are some stragglers left in East Oregon. So yeah, Rural Oregon tends to be much more racist than Urban Oregon.

[Albrenia]

No. You guys already have fifty or so states, stop being greedy and wanting more.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yes. Green flag gang.

[Aureumterra III]

Nice strawman

lol, Oregon and Washington used to be super fucking racist with laws making it illegal for black people to live here.

And then the Civil Rights Movement and economic boom (Mainly in the fashion and tech industries) happened and all of the racists were exiled to Idaho, but there are some stragglers left in East Oregon. So yeah, Rural Oregon tends to be much more racist than Urban Oregon.

I highly doubt people wanting representation are doing so solely out of racism, in an ideal federation, people from distinct geocultural regions would have distinct subnational divisions representing them. Upstate NY and Northern California come to mind, where the votes of the more conservative population gets drowned out by big city voters

If one believes in democracy, I don’t see why they should be opposed to a proposal like Jefferson

[Aureumterra III]

This is such a controversy as Oregon and California have a movement called the State of Jefferson that looks to unify Northern California and CEntrel+Southern+Eastern Oregon into one Conservative State.

I personally think its a horrid idea.

Why?

[Kubra]

lol, Oregon and Washington used to be super fucking racist with laws making it illegal for black people to live here.

And then the Civil Rights Movement and economic boom (Mainly in the fashion and tech industries) happened and all of the racists were exiled to Idaho, but there are some stragglers left in East Oregon. So yeah, Rural Oregon tends to be much more racist than Urban Oregon.

I highly doubt people wanting representation are doing so solely out of racism, in an ideal federation, people from distinct geocultural regions would have distinct subnational divisions representing them. Upstate NY and Northern California come to mind, where the votes of the more conservative population gets drowned out by big city voters

If one believes in democracy, I don’t see why they should be opposed to a proposal like Jefferson

You know, rotten borough's of ol' blighty could have been defended in much the same fashion.

[Dominioan]

Are we going back to pre-Civil war days and making new states that agree with certain ideologies? No.

[New haven america]

lol, Oregon and Washington used to be super fucking racist with laws making it illegal for black people to live here.

And then the Civil Rights Movement and economic boom (Mainly in the fashion and tech industries) happened and all of the racists were exiled to Idaho, but there are some stragglers left in East Oregon. So yeah, Rural Oregon tends to be much more racist than Urban Oregon.

1. I highly doubt people wanting representation are doing so solely out of racism, in an ideal federation, 2. people from distinct geocultural regions would have distinct subnational divisions representing them. 3. Upstate NY and Northern California come to mind, 4. where the votes of the more conservative population gets drowned out by big city voters

5. If one believes in democracy, I don’t see why they should be opposed to a proposal like Jefferson

1. Most of them are, yeah.
2. They already do.
3. Upstate NY is a swing area and Northern California's home to San Francisco and Sacramento, so...
4. As they should, because American Right-Wing Conservatism is a terrible belief system and most of the GOP is basically a terrorist organization trying to reshape America into modern day Russia.

[Albrenia]

I wonder if the folks touting this 'for fair democracy' would be willing to give larger populated cities the more political clout their numbers warrant.

[Aureumterra III]

Are we going back to pre-Civil war days and making new states that agree with certain ideologies? No.

From what I understand, it’s rural farmers being disenfranchised in these states due to urban areas doing all the decision making. It makes sense they would want separation

Yes, I remember meeting a couple of people from eastern Oregon that said people west of the Cascades control the laws of the state and don't get things like why hunting is necessary. Liberals west if the Cascades are very different from eastern Oregon folks. Look at the presidential election results to notice the difference of opinion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Unit ... _in_Oregon

West Virginia was formed because of differences of opinion:

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-y ... t-virginia

West Virginia formed because they were against slavery and conservatism (Ironic considering the state's modern day makeup).

East Oregon is just mad because there's nothing better to do over there.

Do you even attempt to make an actual argument in good faith?

No, conservatives don’t need to have their own politistate.

Please elaborate

[The New California Republic]

Do we have any stats on what the economy of such a thing would be like? All that I can really see from some quick searching is that the overwhelming majority of the economy would be agrarian, sparsely populated etc.

Just going to highlight this post again, as I'm genuinely curious whether anyone knows of economic statistics in terms of what such a thing would look like. If anyone knows of any then I'd be grateful.

[Dominioan]

If we make D.C, Puerto Rico, and all the other territories states, then that would be fair.

[Sanghyeok]

Terrible idea.

[Aureumterra III]

1. I highly doubt people wanting representation are doing so solely out of racism, in an ideal federation, 2. people from distinct geocultural regions would have distinct subnational divisions representing them. 3. Upstate NY and Northern California come to mind, 4. where the votes of the more conservative population gets drowned out by big city voters

5. If one believes in democracy, I don’t see why they should be opposed to a proposal like Jefferson

1. Most of them are, yeah.
2. They already do.
3. Upstate NY is a swing area and Northern California's home to San Francisco and Sacramento, so...
4. As they should, because American Right-Wing Conservatism is a terrible belief system and most of the GOP is basically a terrorist organization trying to reshape America into modern day Russia.

1. I’m going to need a source for that, other than your word
2. Evidently not, judging from the premise of this thread
3. Again, evidently not, judging from the existence of this thread itself
4. Ignoring the childish distinctions in the post, what this says is that you don’t like democracy because people have different opinions

[Aureumterra III]

Terrible idea.

Why?

[Sanghyeok]

Terrible idea.

Why?

The US has too many administrative regions as it is.