Should the State of Jefferson Exist?

[Ethel mermania]

In fairness, most US state flags are appalling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... erritories

Most are little more than some variant of state seals on a blue or white background, with a couple using other colours for backgrounds. Only Washington currently uses Green. They're not all as bad as Oregon, but few are in any way inspiring.

The very few that I like include Ohio and Tennessee (the only decent variants of the red/white/blue stars and stripes theme, with Ohio also getting a nod for its unusual shape), New Mexico (my personal favourite), and maybe Arizona (which at least has some vexillological oomph, even if I don't like the colour scheme). Alabama isn't awful, but isn't particularly interesting either. Texas is fine, except that Chile's been using a very similar design since 1817. And then there's Hawaii, which has that absolutely perfect canton that surely more US states should think of adopting.

Shoutout also to Alaska, Tennessee, Colorado and Wyoming for at least trying something interesting as well.

But yes, secretly we all know that Hawaii's top-left canton is the best part of these flags.

These two metro areas are loaded with California refugees that just want to continue voting democrat (despite fleeing a state ruined by democrats). It would be better for native Nevadans and those that appreciate real western cowboy principles if Las Vegas and Reno went to California where their values would fit in. I can't picture cowboys supporting liberal laws like smoking bans, affirmative action, plastic bag bans, happy meal bans, and bicycle helmet laws (among many silly liberal laws).

Cowboy Ethics and Cowboy Values

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/cowboy- ... boy-values

What on God's green Earth are "cowboy values" and how are you going to explain them in a way that won't have Arch and I come down on you like a ton of bricks?

I'd ask to have what you're smoking considering the rest of what you've put on this thread, but honestly it looks like a really bad trip so I think I'll pass.

5 years of the Jefferson movement summed up and why it's a no:
Conservatives: California is evil, liberal, and our votes don't matter
Rational people: Maybe our current electoral system doesn't work and we should instead implement parliamentary reforms to have proportional representation instead of a winner-takes-all duopoly?
Conservatives: No! That'll ruin our edge in other states! I'll only complain if it doesn't go my way! We HaVe WaTeR!!eleven!!!1

Or just look at this Wehraboo bitching instead of demanding electoral reforms and/or have better candidates to sway voters to their party

Yes, it is funny how the people who are the most enthusiastic about this pointless venture in the name of democracy are also the most dead-set against, you know, actually reforming the electoral system to be more in line with real democracy.

Typical misunderstanding of the issues by the left side of the fence. Mostly this is about local control of funding and laws, not federal.

[Kowani]

Not until Thomas Paine gets a state.

[Ethel mermania]

Not until Thomas Paine gets a state.

50 states of pain..

[The Archregimancy]

In fairness, most US state flags are appalling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_ ... erritories

Most are little more than some variant of state seals on a blue or white background, with a couple using other colours for backgrounds. Only Washington currently uses Green. They're not all as bad as Oregon, but few are in any way inspiring.

The very few that I like include Ohio and Tennessee (the only decent variants of the red/white/blue stars and stripes theme, with Ohio also getting a nod for its unusual shape), New Mexico (my personal favourite), and maybe Arizona (which at least has some vexillological oomph, even if I don't like the colour scheme). Alabama isn't awful, but isn't particularly interesting either. Texas is fine, except that Chile's been using a very similar design since 1817. And then there's Hawaii, which has that absolutely perfect canton that surely more US states should think of adopting.

Shoutout also to Alaska, Tennessee, Colorado and Wyoming for at least trying something interesting as well.

But yes, secretly we all know that Hawaii's top-left canton is the best part of these flags.

I did specifically mention Tennessee - 'the very few that I like include Ohio and Tennessee'.

I don't like Colorado; I think sticking a great big 'C' on the flag is far too obvious. If you do want to put the first letter of your state's name on your flag, then do it subtly - like Ohio, who managed to get it right on several counts.

Wyoming is essentially just a state seal flag with a Bison added, so not on my list.

Alaska... I want to give them half a point for trying something different, but ultimately it's all a bit 'meh'. It's generically north rather than something specific to the state.


But I did - slightly to my embarrassment - forget to mention what's my favourite state flag alongside New Mexico: Maryland. Obviously they were helped by the fact that the Calverts had a stonkingly good coat of arms to appropriate as the state flag, but it's different, distinctive, and works in vexillological terms.

[Sanghyeok]

Shoutout also to Alaska, Tennessee, Colorado and Wyoming for at least trying something interesting as well.

But yes, secretly we all know that Hawaii's top-left canton is the best part of these flags.

I did specifically mention Tennessee - 'the very few that I like include Ohio and Tennessee'.

I don't like Colorado; I think sticking a great big 'C' on the flag is far too obvious. If you do want to put the first letter of your state's name on your flag, then do it subtly - like Ohio, who managed to get it right on several counts.

Wyoming is essentially just a state seal flag with a Bison added, so not on my list.

Alaska... I want to give them half a point for trying something different, but ultimately it's all a bit 'meh'. It's generically north rather than something specific to the state.


But I did - slightly to my embarrassment - forget to mention what's my favourite state flag alongside New Mexico: Maryland. Obviously they were helped by the fact that the Calverts had a stonkingly good coat of arms to appropriate as the state flag, but it's different, distinctive, and works in vexillological terms.

Do you have a favourite prefecture flag?

[The Archregimancy]

Do you have a favourite prefecture flag?

Well, off-topic; but I quite like Kagoshima.

[San Lumen]

Not until Thomas Paine gets a state.

That doesn't sound very good as a name for a state.

[Sanghyeok]

Not until Thomas Paine gets a state.

That doesn't sound very good as a name for a state.

We're all living in the state of pain already.

[Kowani]

Not until Thomas Paine gets a state.

That doesn't sound very good as a name for a state.

Neither does Wisconsin, but here we are.

[The New California Republic]

That doesn't sound very good as a name for a state.

Neither does Wisconsin, but here we are.

Delaware. Del aware. Who is Del? What is he aware of?

[New Ruchaar]

50 states, period. No states of D.C., Puerto Rico, or Jefferson.

[San Lumen]

50 states, period. No states of D.C., Puerto Rico, or Jefferson.

Why not?

[Kowani]

Neither does Wisconsin, but here we are.

Delaware. Del aware. Who is Del? What is he aware of?

The CIA would know.

[Ethel mermania]

Delaware. Del aware. Who is Del? What is he aware of?

The CIA would know.

and that is why we made up a myth about Indians with that name, because. Screw Del

[Rio Cana]

50 states, period. No states of D.C., Puerto Rico, or Jefferson.

Why not?

Why not when it comes to PR. is because while PR. understands and dances to the following you mainlanders do not even know what they are saying. Direct from Spain. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_4aTJXuRws

Then no to cutting up California and Oregon. Cutting up those states will not solve anything. It would just polarize the US more. By the way Oregon
is 53% Federal lands, California is 47.7% Federal lands.

Has for Washington DC, the US could make them there own state but then would have to find another location for the Federal Capital.

[San Lumen]

Why not?

Why not when it comes to PR. is because while PR. understands and dances to the following you mainlanders do not even know what they are saying. Direct from Spain. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_4aTJXuRws

Then no to cutting up California and Oregon. Cutting up those states will not solve anything. It would just polarize the US more. By the way Oregon
is 53% Federal lands, California is 47.7% Federal lands.

Has for Washington DC, the US could make them there own state but then would have to find another location for the Federal Capital.

No they wouldnt have to find a a new capital

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What’s with the US and regional secession movements?

[San Lumen]

What’s with the US and regional secession movements?

Simple, Some areas don't like the fact that more populous counties outvote them.

[Reploid Productions]

Ultimately, these succession groups are a microscopic, albeit sometimes quite noisy minority. 1% of the population is probably an extremely generous overestimate of the actual percentage of people who support these absurd ideas, which is why said ideas basically never make it to the ballot for lack of support. Fringe groups have been making noise about "splitting California" or "State of Jefferson" and similar nonsense for decades, so it should be pretty telling that numerous attempts to get momentum going for it have been a chain of absolute failures.

It's not even a rural vs urban thing, even in rural areas these regional secession things are not a majority position. They're usually spearheaded by wealthy partisan hacks trying to find some way to game the system to get their own personal agendas pushed through.

[Rio Cana]

Why not when it comes to PR. is because while PR. understands and dances to the following you mainlanders do not even know what they are saying. Direct from Spain. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_4aTJXuRws

Then no to cutting up California and Oregon. Cutting up those states will not solve anything. It would just polarize the US more. By the way Oregon
is 53% Federal lands, California is 47.7% Federal lands.

Has for Washington DC, the US could make them there own state but then would have to find another location for the Federal Capital.

No they wouldnt have to find a a new capital

Maybe Washington DC does not have to be made an official state. In Mexico, Mexico city while still being the official capital city of Mexico, was given autonomy. They are equal to a state without being a state. Of course, changes were made in the Mexican constitution. More then likely anything planned for Washington DC would require changes in the US constitution.

Read this - https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/federa ... xico-city/

[Bala Mantre]

What’s with the US and regional secession movements?

Simple, Some areas don't like the fact that more populous counties outvote them.

And just incase you all didnt know, for Oregon, 85 to 90% of the population of Oregon lives in the Willamette Valley and a small population past the Coast Mountains and a even smaller population East of the Cascades

[Kazarogkai]

Jefferson and Southern Illinois in my eyes should be states, albeit as a compromise in exchange for DC and Puerto Rico. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours quid pro pro. nevertheless In general Ive always been a big supporter of breaking up current states in general. In my eyes the more people the less value an individual voter holds and hence the less democratic/eglaritarian said state becomes. A large state like Texas can't hope to represent all the interests and desires of every resident to the fullest which inevitably results in someone getting their toes stepped on. Rather than letting such an inevitability to occur people should be allowed to vote with their feet and engage in their sacred right of voluntary association rather than being forced to continue with the situation. If I had my way no state would have greater than 1 million people the mild exception would be large contiguous urban areas like Chicago or New York, which would form citystates, but that's about it. Any area that holds a population equaling that of the current smallest state, right now that would be Wyoming at about 550 K, whose residents desire it should be allowed to petition for statehood. Said statehood should be granted so long as 3 conditions are met:

1, Said new state comprises a singular contiguous area
2. The population of said area as mentioned equals that of the current smallest state
3. A constitutional convention is called by local residents sending delegates who will be tasked with creating a constitution for said new state.
3. a referendum comprising the residents of said area only returns with a vote of 2/3rds of the population saying yes to both statehood and the new constitution followed by congressional approval(51%). If congressional approval cannot be achieved then a second vote must be made in which case 3/4 of all voters must vote yes to statehood and the new constitution to overcome the congressional veto.

If you don't like your current state, make your own. Is not voluntary association, federalism, and the ability to choose ones government/representatives a fundamentally important component of a truly democratic society? Or am I wrong in that regard perchance?

[Bala Mantre]

The state of Jefferson would only have 1.7 million people living there

[Kazarogkai]

*Snip*

But I did - slightly to my embarrassment - forget to mention what's my favourite state flag alongside New Mexico: Maryland. Obviously they were helped by the fact that the Calverts had a stonkingly good coat of arms to appropriate as the state flag, but it's different, distinctive, and works in vexillological terms.

For me it's between South Carolina and Alabama.

South Carolina has a wonderful simplicity to it while still being reasonably meaningful. Alabama is also nice in that regard. 2 colors is best when it comes to flags in my eyes. California and Texas also get good marks. California, while I despise the state have always had nothing but good regards to the flag itself which is both symbolically meaningful but also has some history. Texas to a lesser degree presents similar feelings albeit it's similarity to the US flag and the implied laziness of that for me reduces it's standing to me. Maryland honestly gives me weird nausea. Too much shit plastered on. Any one image by itself would have been perfectly fine alone but combined... just awful.

The state of Jefferson would only have 1.7 million people living there

Combined with the Oregon portions it might be bit bigger but I degrees. It's bigger than Wyoming so good enough. The smaller the better.

[San Lumen]

No they wouldnt have to find a a new capital

Maybe Washington DC does not have to be made an official state. In Mexico, Mexico city while still being the official capital city of Mexico, was given autonomy. They are equal to a state without being a state. Of course, changes were made in the Mexican constitution. More then likely anything planned for Washington DC would require changes in the US constitution.

Read this - https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/federa ... xico-city/

It would not require any changes.