That would be one state. Also it is not a practical plan. Because neither side wants it.
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by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:39 am
by The Restored Danelaw » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:45 am
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by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:45 am
by Arvenia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:02 am
Novus America wrote:Arvenia wrote:How about dividing Israel into Israel, Palestine, Gaza and Jerusalem? Palestine gets West Bank, Israel continues to exist, Gaza stays independent and Jerusalem becomes its own nation. On the other hand, this is the only result I can think of (so far).
The issue here is Jerusalem. Neither side will give it up. But I do think it is very likely that Gaza and the West Bank are too different to successfully form a single state.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:29 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.
That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:31 am
Arvenia wrote:Novus America wrote:
The issue here is Jerusalem. Neither side will give it up. But I do think it is very likely that Gaza and the West Bank are too different to successfully form a single state.
The Palestinian part is possible, since Gaza is more religious, while the West Bank tends to be more secular.
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:12 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.
That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:17 am
Insaanistan wrote:The Restored Danelaw wrote:That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.
What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.
by Vivolkha » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:41 am
Novus America wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.
Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.
It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.
by Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:59 am
Insaanistan wrote:The Restored Danelaw wrote:That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.
What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.
by Vassenor » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Vivolkha wrote:Novus America wrote:
Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.
It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.
Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.Novus America wrote:
I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.
Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:08 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.
Let's not pretend that the majority of the Muslims of the region don't want Israel to cease to exist, including yourself. People are a bit sceptical of how genuine the argument is that the Jews will be looked after very nicely after having their right to govern themselves revoked - a state of affairs that could only be enacted through successful use of military force. The victorious Muslims would benevolently let bygones be bygones, not start transferring land to those who "rightfully" have claim to it and start moving the Jews along. They wouldn't start expelling Jews or threatening them to leave. No, they'd all still be there, very happy, living on a big farm that just happens to have no telephones.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:08 pm
Vivolkha wrote:Novus America wrote:
Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.
It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.
Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.Novus America wrote:
I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.
Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:10 pm
Vassenor wrote:Vivolkha wrote:Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.
Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.
The ANC was also considered a terrorist organization in multiple countries. Your point?
by Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:16 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Let's not pretend that the majority of the Muslims of the region don't want Israel to cease to exist, including yourself. People are a bit sceptical of how genuine the argument is that the Jews will be looked after very nicely after having their right to govern themselves revoked - a state of affairs that could only be enacted through successful use of military force. The victorious Muslims would benevolently let bygones be bygones, not start transferring land to those who "rightfully" have claim to it and start moving the Jews along. They wouldn't start expelling Jews or threatening them to leave. No, they'd all still be there, very happy, living on a big farm that just happens to have no telephones.
Your NS name suits you.
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:20 pm
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:20 pm
by Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:24 pm
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:26 pm
by Vivolkha » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:38 pm
by Kowani » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:58 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.
Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:36 pm
Novus America wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
I’m not a genocide enthusiast, silly. I’m AGAINST Zionism, not FOR it.
It is not that simple. Surely you would concede that eliminating Israel would be bad for the Jews living there, correct?
And would result in a government likely not willing to fully protect their rights.
At best you get a even more fucked up version of Lebanon.
At worst, actual genocide.
Thus it is not only entirely unrealistic (Israel is now well established, it is not going away any time soon) it is also not justified.
by Insaanistan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.
Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.
by Novus America » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:47 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Novus America wrote:
It is not that simple. Surely you would concede that eliminating Israel would be bad for the Jews living there, correct?
And would result in a government likely not willing to fully protect their rights.
At best you get a even more fucked up version of Lebanon.
At worst, actual genocide.
Thus it is not only entirely unrealistic (Israel is now well established, it is not going away any time soon) it is also not justified.
I concede many in Palestine would want a genocide. More would just want the Israelis out. More still would just want Israelis to leave them alone and not blast innocent kids with tanks.
by Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:56 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.
If I wanted the state of Azawad to disappear (when it still existed), would that mean I wanted Tuareg genocide?
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