Sudan to normalize relations with Israel

[Novus America]

What would be the third state?

The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.

That would be one state. Also it is not a practical plan. Because neither side wants it.

[The Restored Danelaw]

What would be the third state?

The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.

That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.

[Insaanistan]

The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.

That would be one state. Also it is not a practical plan. Because neither side wants it.

Yeah... I didn’t realize at the time. I also used to think we could roll into Israel, blow up some stuff, then ask the Israelis to give the land back and promise to pay them.

[Arvenia]

How about dividing Israel into Israel, Palestine, Gaza and Jerusalem? Palestine gets West Bank, Israel continues to exist, Gaza stays independent and Jerusalem becomes its own nation. On the other hand, this is the only result I can think of (so far).

The issue here is Jerusalem. Neither side will give it up. But I do think it is very likely that Gaza and the West Bank are too different to successfully form a single state.

The Palestinian part is possible, since Gaza is more religious, while the West Bank tends to be more secular.

[Novus America]

The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.

That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.

Actually there would be de facto two states still, even if Israel annexed the West Bank it would still not go for Gaza.
Israel does not want Gaza.

[Novus America]

The issue here is Jerusalem. Neither side will give it up. But I do think it is very likely that Gaza and the West Bank are too different to successfully form a single state.

The Palestinian part is possible, since Gaza is more religious, while the West Bank tends to be more secular.

I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.

[Insaanistan]

The nation I suggested when I was a kid: Israelistine, where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in perfect harmony.

That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.

What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.

[Novus America]

That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.

What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.

Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.

It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.

[Vivolkha]

What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.

Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.

It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.

Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.

The Palestinian part is possible, since Gaza is more religious, while the West Bank tends to be more secular.

I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.

Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.

[Dumb Ideologies]

That would be impossible, as Palestinians would stand for nothing short of full Jewish genocide. A likely three state solution could have meant a sovereign Palestine and a Free City of Jerusalem in the west [alongside Israel] with Gaza going to Egypt, at least prior to 1967. Now, the issue of Jerusalem has been all-but closed as Israel de facto controls all of it, so the three states could be Israel (with Jerusalem), Palestine (in the West Bank) and an independent Gaza. Though frankly Israel has started to read the room this last few years and is no longer calling for a two-state solution; which given they were the only ones doing so in good faith anyway, it might mean an inevitable One State Solution with Israel being the only state remaining.

What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.

Let's not pretend that the majority of the Muslims of the region don't want Israel to cease to exist, including yourself. People are a bit sceptical of how genuine the argument is that the Jews will be looked after very nicely after having their right to govern themselves revoked - a state of affairs that could only be enacted through successful use of military force. The victorious Muslims would benevolently let bygones be bygones, not start transferring land to those who "rightfully" have claim to it and start moving the Jews along. They wouldn't start expelling Jews or threatening them to leave. No, they'd all still be there, very happy, living on a big farm that just happens to have no telephones.

[Vassenor]

Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.

It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.

Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.

I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.

Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.

The ANC was also considered a terrorist organization in multiple countries. Your point?

[Insaanistan]

What weird terrorists have you been listening to? Most Palestinians don’t want a genocide against Jews.

Let's not pretend that the majority of the Muslims of the region don't want Israel to cease to exist, including yourself. People are a bit sceptical of how genuine the argument is that the Jews will be looked after very nicely after having their right to govern themselves revoked - a state of affairs that could only be enacted through successful use of military force. The victorious Muslims would benevolently let bygones be bygones, not start transferring land to those who "rightfully" have claim to it and start moving the Jews along. They wouldn't start expelling Jews or threatening them to leave. No, they'd all still be there, very happy, living on a big farm that just happens to have no telephones.

Your NS name suits you.

[Novus America]

Unfortunately those weird terrorists have a good size following. There are calls to send Jews to America or Europe. Although I do not think the a majority of Palestinians Arabs necessarily believe that, given what Hamas has done in Gaza, even if not outright Nazi style a genocide, a dictatorship with no regards for basic rights like in Gaza would be quite possible. Forced expulsions would not be out of the question either.

It is legitimate for the Jews to be concern that a Palestinian Arab majority government would not uphold the same level of rights that they wish to have.

Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.

I agree, like Pakistan split in 73.

Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.

Although it is not an exact comparison, the geographic issue is very similar. In Palestinian Arab ares it is more religious than ethnolinguistic true, but this is not hypothetical. You still have two geographic separated areas with a distinct outlook on critical issues that is difficult to reconcile.

Gaza and the West Bank already de facto split, it has already happened as well.

[Novus America]

Hamas itself (which Palestinians voted once into office, mind you) is considered a terrorist organization in several countries.


Eh. In Palestine, the conflict is between two (de facto one-party) governing authorities. In Pakistan, East and West had entirely different ethnolinguistic identities. I don't think it's an accurate comparison.

The ANC was also considered a terrorist organization in multiple countries. Your point?

Hamas goes around blowing things up still with armed paramilitaries.
Also although the ANC morphed from a rebel group to an absurdly corrupt political party is not really a great argument either.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Let's not pretend that the majority of the Muslims of the region don't want Israel to cease to exist, including yourself. People are a bit sceptical of how genuine the argument is that the Jews will be looked after very nicely after having their right to govern themselves revoked - a state of affairs that could only be enacted through successful use of military force. The victorious Muslims would benevolently let bygones be bygones, not start transferring land to those who "rightfully" have claim to it and start moving the Jews along. They wouldn't start expelling Jews or threatening them to leave. No, they'd all still be there, very happy, living on a big farm that just happens to have no telephones.

Your NS name suits you.

From a genocide-enthusiast, I shall take that as a compliment.

[Insaanistan]

Your NS name suits you.

From a genocide-enthusiast, I shall take that as a compliment.

I’m not a genocide enthusiast, silly. I’m AGAINST Zionism, not FOR it.

[Insaanistan]

Your NS name suits you.

From a genocide-enthusiast, I shall take that as a compliment.

Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.

[Dumb Ideologies]

From a genocide-enthusiast, I shall take that as a compliment.

Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.

Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.

[Novus America]

From a genocide-enthusiast, I shall take that as a compliment.

I’m not a genocide enthusiast, silly. I’m AGAINST Zionism, not FOR it.

It is not that simple. Surely you would concede that eliminating Israel would be bad for the Jews living there, correct?
And would result in a government likely not willing to fully protect their rights.
At best you get a even more fucked up version of Lebanon.

At worst, actual genocide.

Thus it is not only entirely unrealistic (Israel is now well established, it is not going away any time soon) it is also not justified.

[Vivolkha]

Regardless, making Israel disappear somehow is not a feasable goal.

[Kowani]

Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.

Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.

Your name is Dumb Ideologies, not Verbal Murderer.

[Insaanistan]

I’m not a genocide enthusiast, silly. I’m AGAINST Zionism, not FOR it.

It is not that simple. Surely you would concede that eliminating Israel would be bad for the Jews living there, correct?
And would result in a government likely not willing to fully protect their rights.
At best you get a even more fucked up version of Lebanon.

At worst, actual genocide.

Thus it is not only entirely unrealistic (Israel is now well established, it is not going away any time soon) it is also not justified.

I concede many in Palestine would want a genocide. More would just want the Israelis out. More still would just want Israelis to leave them alone and not blast innocent kids with tanks.

[Insaanistan]

Funny how you accuse a 14 year-old you’ve never met of supporting genocide for supporting a people that is being oppressed.

Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.

If I wanted the state of Azawad to disappear (when it still existed), would that mean I wanted Tuareg genocide?

[Novus America]

It is not that simple. Surely you would concede that eliminating Israel would be bad for the Jews living there, correct?
And would result in a government likely not willing to fully protect their rights.
At best you get a even more fucked up version of Lebanon.

At worst, actual genocide.

Thus it is not only entirely unrealistic (Israel is now well established, it is not going away any time soon) it is also not justified.

I concede many in Palestine would want a genocide. More would just want the Israelis out. More still would just want Israelis to leave them alone and not blast innocent kids with tanks.

Okay, but then the logical conclusion to that is a two or three state solution, not the elimination of Israel (which cannot be practically not ethically done).

So you would be fine with Israel if it simply “left the Palestinians alone” then?

Here is the reality. Israel exists. It is not going away.
All or nothing will thus get you nothing. So if you want a Palestinian Arab state to exist, you are going to have to recognize Israel will exist, and compromise with it.

Or you can sacrifice the Palestinians on the altar of ideological purity. But I fail to see how that benefits them.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Your regular poorly-argued screeds about how Israel needs to disappear but wOaH i dOn'T WaNt aNyThInG BaD To hApPeN To tHe jEwS HoW dArE YoU would not likely be more convincing in person.

If I wanted the state of Azawad to disappear (when it still existed), would that mean I wanted Tuareg genocide?

Woah hold up there buddy I'm going to have to inspect your "free topic change" card. I only saw it for a second but it looked like it was drawn in crayon.