Military coup in Honduras

[Greed and Death]

And the beaches because everyone knows girls in bikini's are the best source for information.

Naturally, but we may have to rent a yacht in order to lure them aboard and um... pump them for information.

I was thinking the US navy could loan us something. with a crew of course, they could help us pump the girls for information.

[Galloism]

And the beaches because everyone knows girls in bikini's are the best source for information.

Naturally, but we may have to rent a yacht in order to lure them aboard and um... pump them for information.

I was thinking the US navy could loan us something. with a crew of course, they could help us pump the girls for information.

I'd rather do most of the pumping myself.

[Greed and Death]

Naturally, but we may have to rent a yacht in order to lure them aboard and um... pump them for information.

I was thinking the US navy could loan us something. with a crew of course, they could help us pump the girls for information.

I'd rather do most of the pumping myself.

Plenty of girls to pump for information to go around.

[Gravlen]

Honduras has a recent history of dictators "winning" elections repetitively to stay in power. The history of Honduras was the motivation for this unchangeable section of the Constitution.

Was that a real danger in this case?

Congress, the Supreme court, and the military thought so.

I don't think they did. I think they saw an opportunity to remove a politician that had turned too far to the left for their liking, and seized it in a good old fashioned powerplay.

[Grave_n_idle]

Was that a real danger in this case?

Congress, the Supreme court, and the military thought so.

I don't think they did. I think they saw an opportunity to remove a politician that had turned too far to the left for their liking, and seized it in a good old fashioned powerplay.

In Honduras? It couldn't happen!

[Vervaria]

In Honduras? It couldn't happen!

It's completely, utterly, inconceivable!

[The Atlantian islands]

When looking soley at the reasoning behind ousting the democratically elected President, this ousting of the President has a very, very similar motive to the one behind the ousting of Allende in Chile.

1. Congress claims that the President has violated the laws of the constitution.

2. Congress claims the President is being uncooperative and ignoring the non-executive branches of government.

3. Congress calls the military to stop the President from further violations of the constitution.


That can both be applied to this case of Honduras or Chile, equally. The difference, of course, is what came after the military acted on Congress' wishes.

[Gravlen]

3. Congress calls the military to stop the President from further violations of the constitution.

There's the problem, right there...

[The Atlantian islands]

3. Congress calls the military to stop the President from further violations of the constitution.

There's the problem, right there...

Oh, I understand that some have a problem with that, and I understand why. Military hasn't had the best track record when it comes to managing government in Latin-America.

I was just showing how similar this was to why/how Allende was removed from power, that's all.

[Greed and Death]

Was that a real danger in this case?

Congress, the Supreme court, and the military thought so.

I don't think they did. I think they saw an opportunity to remove a politician that had turned too far to the left for their liking, and seized it in a good old fashioned powerplay.

Then wouldn't they have removed him at the same time they ruled he broke the law ???
Instead of ruling an action is against the law then waiting for him to break the law ???

If it was a power grab it should have been your violating the Constitution, bye bye.

Not this action is a violation of the Constitution, you are officially ordered to stop.
*Then wait and see if he violates the ruling*
Then toss him out for violating the ruling.

[Gravlen]

There's the problem, right there...

Oh, I understand that some have a problem with that, and I understand why. Military hasn't had the best track record when it comes to managing government in Latin-America.

I was just showing how similar this was to why/how Allende was removed from power, that's all.

Not disagreeing with you. I don't have enough knowledge about Allende to comment on the similarities, but felt I should repeat what I see as the start of the serious problems.

[Gravlen]

Congress, the Supreme court, and the military thought so.

I don't think they did. I think they saw an opportunity to remove a politician that had turned too far to the left for their liking, and seized it in a good old fashioned powerplay.

Then wouldn't they have removed him at the same time they ruled he broke the law ???
Instead of ruling an action is against the law then waiting for him to break the law ???

If it was a power grab it should have been your violating the Constitution, bye bye.

Not this action is a violation of the Constitution, you are officially ordered to stop.
*Then wait and see if he violates the ruling*
Then toss him out for violating the ruling.

I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I get the feeling that I would be touching upon it if I repeat that any removal of the president could and should have happened without the miltary getting involved.

[Gravlen]

Also, Honduras withdraws from the OAS before theyre kicked out.
The Supreme Court says the decision to remove Zelaya is final and irreversible.
Demonstrators in favour of the junta interim regime is marching freely in the streets, while demonstrators in favour of the return of Zelaya is being met by watercannons and teargas.
The media in Honduras is reporting little about the international reactions to the coup.
No nation has thus far recognized the new regime.

[Greed and Death]

I don't think they did. I think they saw an opportunity to remove a politician that had turned too far to the left for their liking, and seized it in a good old fashioned powerplay.

Then wouldn't they have removed him at the same time they ruled he broke the law ???
Instead of ruling an action is against the law then waiting for him to break the law ???

If it was a power grab it should have been your violating the Constitution, bye bye.

Not this action is a violation of the Constitution, you are officially ordered to stop.
*Then wait and see if he violates the ruling*
Then toss him out for violating the ruling.

I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I get the feeling that I would be touching upon it if I repeat that any removal of the president could and should have happened without the miltary getting involved.

I don't think Honduran law differentiates between police between police and military, most of Latin America does not.This is just the military using its police function.

If you tell someone something is illegal and wait for them to break the law before you do anything to them, that is not a power grab that's enforcing the law.

[Free Soviets]

I don't think Honduran law differentiates between police between police and military, most of Latin America does not.This is just the military using its police function.

If you tell someone something is illegal and wait for them to break the law before you do anything to them, that is not a power grab that's enforcing the law.

http://www.miamiherald.com/1506/story/1125872.html

Top Honduran military lawyer: We broke the law

The military officers who rushed deposed Honduran President Manuel Zelaya out of the country Sunday committed a crime but will be exonerated for saving the country from mob violence, the army's top lawyer said.

In an interview with The Miami Herald and El Salvador's elfaro.net, army attorney Col. Herberth Bayardo Inestroza acknowledged that top military brass made the call to forcibly remove Zelaya -- and they circumvented laws when they did it.

It was the first time any participant in Sunday's overthrow admitted committing an offense and the first time a Honduran authority revealed who made the decision that has been denounced worldwide.

''We know there was a crime there,'' said Inestroza, the top legal advisor for the Honduran armed forces. ``In the moment that we took him out of the country, in the way that he was taken out, there is a crime. Because of the circumstances of the moment this crime occurred, there is going to be a justification and cause for acquittal that will protect us.''

a coup is a coup is a coup

[Free Soviets]

demonstrators in favour of the return of Zelaya is being met by watercannons and teargas

when not being detained or shot at or having their bus tires shot out on their way to such demonstrations

[Greed and Death]

a coup is a coup is a coup

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

[Gravlen]

I don't think Honduran law differentiates between police between police and military, most of Latin America does not.This is just the military using its police function.

That should be easy for you to prove then. I'd be interested in seeing how the military here were under civiliian authority and not military command, and how the military has complete law enforcement capabilities.

If you tell someone something is illegal and wait for them to break the law before you do anything to them, that is not a power grab that's enforcing the law.

When you use the military to preemptively remove a political opponent for possible future crimes, bypass the rule of law and usurp the presidency without bothering to arrest and prosecute the alleged law-breaker, that's not enforcing the law.

[Free Soviets]

a coup is a coup is a coup

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

so just to clarify, having a free and fair non-binding referendum of the people to see if they want to use their sovereign right to amend the constitution (or just scrap it and start fresh) is a horrific evil, while having the military step in to depose the referendum plotter and his supporters, abolish constitutional liberties, install cronies into positions of power, and generally act like every other corrupt latin american right-wing coup ever is a good thing to be defended and celebrated?

[Gravlen]

a coup is a coup is a coup

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

No, no it wouldn't. Not in a democracy, nor a regime that follows the rule of law.

But then again, maybe you're not a fan of that kind of government, but would rather like a smooth-running authoritarian dictatorship.

[Free Soviets]

haha, awesome

[The Atlantian islands]

haha, awesome

Why is that in German?

"Die Wahrheit macht uns frei!"

"Ein Land, Ein Volk, Eine Stimme. Freiden."

[Grave_n_idle]

a coup is a coup is a coup

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

Right. If the US military acted like the Honduran military they could... shoot anyone who protested in favour of the Second Amendment, for example.

It would quickly quell one of the big dissents in the country. Obviously you approve.

[Greed and Death]

a coup is a coup is a coup

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

Right. If the US military acted like the Honduran military they could... shoot anyone who protested in favour of the Second Amendment, for example.

It would quickly quell one of the big dissents in the country. Obviously you approve.

A small price to pay to run off socialist presidents.

[Grave_n_idle]

A good coup is still good.
If only the US military was more proactive like the Honduran military. Things would run more smoothly.

Right. If the US military acted like the Honduran military they could... shoot anyone who protested in favour of the Second Amendment, for example.

It would quickly quell one of the big dissents in the country. Obviously you approve.

A small price to pay to run off socialist presidents.

So, you'd happily trade Second Amendment rights for a promise of no socialism?