The Founding Fathers and Slavery

[Cordel One]

As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.

Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.

The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.

The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.

You're right that it wasn't a widely held belief, and you have no reason to assume these founders were above them as well. In fact, considering many of them owned slaves it's safe to assume they are racists.

[FNU]

...meanwhile, in Brazil.

Yeah, their slavery continued until 1854, give or take.

It would've been interesting to have American experience it's own version of the Haitian Revolution. It would've likely happened if the planned uprising hadn't been stopped.

[San Lumen]

As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.

Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.

The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.

The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.

You're right that it wasn't a widely held belief, and you have no reason to assume these founders were above them as well. In fact, considering many of them owned slaves it's safe to assume they are racists.

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

[Ethel mermania]

You're right that it wasn't a widely held belief, and you have no reason to assume these founders were above them as well. In fact, considering many of them owned slaves it's safe to assume they are racists.

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

Lots of, Niggerphile, nigger lover, niggerphobe, etc.

At the time of the debates while Lincoln was strongly anti-slavery, he did not believe in equality of the races. I think we have lincolns friend Frederick Douglass for the softening of his attitude later in his life.

The abolitionists led by the religious were the folks for equality

[San Lumen]

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

Lots of, Niggerphile, nigger lover, niggerphobe, etc.

At the time of the debates while Lincoln was strongly anti-slavery, he did not believe in equality of the races. I think we have lincolns friend Frederick Douglass for the softening of his attitude later in his life.

Yes that is true. Douglass was very instrumental.

[Cordel One]

You're right that it wasn't a widely held belief, and you have no reason to assume these founders were above them as well. In fact, considering many of them owned slaves it's safe to assume they are racists.

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Believe it or not, yes. Racism doesn't stop being racist when everyone else is also racist.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

I think you'd be shocked, unless of course you have an excuse for his repeated use of the term "ni**er-lover".

[Ethel mermania]

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Believe it or not, yes. Racism doesn't stop being racist when everyone else is also racist.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

I think you'd be shocked, unless of course you have an excuse for his repeated use of the term "ni**er-lover".

He was trying to win the senate race. He was denying the charge.

[Estanglia]

You're right that it wasn't a widely held belief, and you have no reason to assume these founders were above them as well. In fact, considering many of them owned slaves it's safe to assume they are racists.

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

You act like Cordel just said the ultimate heresy, when they pretty much just stated the truth.

You take your average person from 1776 and bring them to the modern day and they'll most likely be racist by our standards.

[San Lumen]

Yes slavery is wrong but to call them racists is ridiculous. By your standard anyone from before 1864 is a racist if they owned slaves and before 1964 if the didnt call for equal rights.

Believe it or not, yes. Racism doesn't stop being racist when everyone else is also racist.

Was Lincoln a racist to you? Ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? I think you'd be shocked by what you read.

I think you'd be shocked, unless of course you have an excuse for his repeated use of the term "ni**er-lover".

It is flat out ridiculous to hold people from previous eras to our standards. Do you at the very least acknowledge abolishing slavery in 1787 would have been impossible?

Lincoln was product of his time. He did believe slavery was wrong and later changed his views to become more sympathetic to equality. Some of the people who worked in the White House during his presidency including his valet William Slade were African American .

[Cannot think of a name]

Yeah, their slavery continued until 1854, give or take.

It would've been interesting to have American experience it's own version of the Haitian Revolution. It would've likely happened if the planned uprising hadn't been stopped.

I often wonder what would have happened if the Maroons and indigenous teamed up with the pirates of Port of Prince and Nassau, helping fill up ships with crew that would hunt and free slave ships and then eventually invade and liberate slave states. Then, instead of having to form a coalition with slave owners in order to break free from England, the northern states would have to form a coalition with Maroons, pirates, and indigenous people who have already proved their ability to take on the colonial powers. In fact, since they would have liberated the slave colonies they would have to negotiate a peace with that group and ally with them against England in order to maintain a peace. That would be a very different country. Or set of countries.

[La Xinga]

Racism and slavery are separate stuff.

[Salus Maior]

Believe it or not, yes. Racism doesn't stop being racist when everyone else is also racist.

I think you'd be shocked, unless of course you have an excuse for his repeated use of the term "ni**er-lover".

It is flat out ridiculous to hold people from previous eras to our standards. Do you at the very least acknowledge abolishing slavery in 1787 would have been impossible?

Lincoln was product of his time. He did believe slavery was wrong and later changed his views to become more sympathetic to equality. Some of the people who worked in his worked in the White House during his presidency including his valet William Slade.

There is also the matter that Lincoln was shot not long after he said that black soldiers should get the vote.

[Cannot think of a name]

Racism and slavery are separate stuff.

But when you combine slavery with racism, you get to extend the practice way, way past its due by date for society in general.

[La Xinga]

Racism and slavery are separate stuff.

But when you combine slavery with racism, you get to extend the practice way, way past its due by date for society in general.

What?

[Cannot think of a name]

But when you combine slavery with racism, you get to extend the practice way, way past its due by date for society in general.

What?

What?

[La Xinga]

What?

What?

What?

[Cordel One]

Believe it or not, yes. Racism doesn't stop being racist when everyone else is also racist.

I think you'd be shocked, unless of course you have an excuse for his repeated use of the term "ni**er-lover".

It is flat out ridiculous to hold people from previous eras to our standards. Do you at the very least acknowledge abolishing slavery in 1787 would have been impossible?

Lincoln was product of his time. He did believe slavery was wrong and later changed his views to become more sympathetic to equality. Some of the people who worked in his worked in the White House during his presidency including his valet William Slade.

Exactly, he was a racist. He stopped being so much of one later in his life, but he definitely was one.

[Cordel One]

What?

What?

What?

[San Lumen]

It is flat out ridiculous to hold people from previous eras to our standards. Do you at the very least acknowledge abolishing slavery in 1787 would have been impossible?

Lincoln was product of his time. He did believe slavery was wrong and later changed his views to become more sympathetic to equality. Some of the people who worked in his worked in the White House during his presidency including his valet William Slade.

Exactly, he was a racist. He stopped being so much of one later in his life, but he definitely was one.

The fact that such beliefs were widespread makes everyone from that time a racist? I meant to say some of the people who worked in the White House during Lincoln's Presidency were african american including his valet William Slade.

[La Xinga]

What?

What?

What?

[Salus Maior]

Exactly, he was a racist. He stopped being so much of one later in his life, but he definitely was one.

He didn't really have a chance to be anything else being born in that time and cultural context.

Which makes the fact that he did change and do so much on behalf of African Americans as profound as it is.

[Cordel One]

Exactly, he was a racist. He stopped being so much of one later in his life, but he definitely was one.

He didn't really have a chance to be anything else being born in that time and cultural context.

And? I get why he was a racist.

[Ethel mermania]

Racism and slavery are separate stuff.

Not in the history of the United States.

[Salus Maior]

He didn't really have a chance to be anything else being born in that time and cultural context.

And? I get why he was a racist.

Then how can that really be held against him?

Especially when he did change when he finally got to know a number of African Americans?

[La Xinga]

Racism and slavery are separate stuff.

Not in the history of the United States.

Eh.........