The Founding Fathers and Slavery

[Aureumterra III]

The ideas of the American founders, one could argue, directly lead to the French Revolution, which in turn lead to the spread of liberalism, which in turn allowed for rapid industrialization and the industrial revolution

Good thing I don't like the Industrial Revolution.

Aren’t you a communist though? If it weren’t for the industrial revolution, the system of nobles and serfs would have continued and feudalism wouldn’t have transitioned to capitalism in the first place

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Weren't your founding fathers the vikings?

Technically we still are vikings, since it was a term to refer to all Scandinavians and descendants

You can’t really honor an entire ethnic group the way you can, say, George Washington, Simon Bolivar, or Vladimir Lenin

Most countries at least have a mythical founder (Ireland, Norway, Japan), we don’t have that either

At least your founders had epic songs. All ours had was the national anthem, an appropriated English drinking song.

[Cannot think of a name]

The ideas of the American founders, one could argue, directly lead to the French Revolution, which in turn lead to the spread of liberalism, which in turn allowed for rapid industrialization and the industrial revolution

Good thing I don't like the Industrial Revolution.

...how much do you actually know about Marx?

[The Two Jerseys]

But he deserves a statue...

...because he actually made contributions to society worth making a statue for instead of founding some garbage nation.

Inspiring incompetent followers to murder millions of people is a contribution to society?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Cool names too. Harald Hadrada, Ivar the Boneless, Cnute...

[Resilient Acceleration]

You take your average person from 1776 and bring them to the modern day and they'll most likely be racist by our standards.

And by their standards we'd be mentally ill.

Personally, I have this prediction that our descendants will view us as horrific genocidal megamonsters, due to how we treat farm animals. We're not free from that kind of thing either.

[Loben III]

A fine line which is often blurred even by yourself.

He seems pretty confident in identifying where that line lies with everyone else, though.

Well yes, it’s common to overlook ones own mistakes when you spend time looking at anyone else’s.

[Cannot think of a name]

Technically we still are vikings, since it was a term to refer to all Scandinavians and descendants

You can’t really honor an entire ethnic group the way you can, say, George Washington, Simon Bolivar, or Vladimir Lenin

Most countries at least have a mythical founder (Ireland, Norway, Japan), we don’t have that either

At least your founders had epic songs. All ours had was the national anthem, an appropriated English drinking song.

With a poem about a battle some dude watched from a boat.

[Cordel One]

The wall, yes. The Jefferson memorial can go the same path as the Washington monument.

What? You want to demolish the Vietnam veterans memorial? What is your rationale for that?

Not only did the United States fight on the wrong side of the VIetnam War, the army also committed many war crimes.

I'd be fine with an apology memorial to those who got drafted, though.

[Cordel One]

A fine line which is often blurred even by yourself.

He seems pretty confident in identifying where that line lies with everyone else, though.

I can only eyeball it, from personal experience I know for a fact many Americans worship the founders though.

[Ethel mermania]

Just about everyone in the US in 1787 was both racist and sexist.

By today’s standards. No one was thinking about women’s suffrage in 1787. The idea of women’s rights didn’t get widespread attention in the US until 1848 with the Seneca falls convention.

I am going to take the other posters point here. 1789 was quite the racist and sexist time in aMerica, and all the world for that matter. It is fair to say they had for the most the views of the times on the issues, we.can note these flaws. That said, I do agree with you that it is unfair to judge someone out of their time.

[Loben III]

The ideas of the American founders, one could argue, directly lead to the French Revolution, which in turn lead to the spread of liberalism, which in turn allowed for rapid industrialization and the industrial revolution

Good thing I don't like the Industrial Revolution.

Oh god

[Albionist Great Britain]

We’ve ironically appropriated King Arthur to the point most people think of England when he’s mentioned, despite him being foretold to expel the English from the lands in their entirety. Personally I don’t mind it, but it is funny. I wish we venerated Æthelstān, as he was a real person and England’s legitimate founder.

I mean if you really want to be technical, Claudius was the founder of modern England

Claudius was pre-Anglo-Saxon era and England is the English nation so I disagree. The USA was founded explicitly by WASPs and its society was based around that culture AFAIK, while Roman Britain was Roman and Celtic, and faded long before the Germanics rolled in.

We’ve ironically appropriated King Arthur to the point most people think of England when he’s mentioned, despite him being foretold to expel the English from the lands in their entirety. Personally I don’t mind it, but it is funny. I wish we venerated Æthelstān, as he was a real person and England’s legitimate founder.

Æthelstan doesn’t get enough credit, yes. And he should. He was quite the king, considering how short his reign was.

Agreed. Other notable individuals I recognise are, of course, Elizabeth I and Winston Churchill among others. Though they weren’t really founders.

[Cordel One]

Good thing I don't like the Industrial Revolution.

...how much do you actually know about Marx?

I'm not an orthodox Marxist.

[San Lumen]

What? You want to demolish the Vietnam veterans memorial? What is your rationale for that?

Not only did the United States fight on the wrong side of the VIetnam War, the army also committed many war crimes.

I'd be fine with an apology memorial to those who got drafted, though.

And that means the names of those who died shouldn’t be honored? Propose that in front of crowd and you’d be laughed or booed off the stage.

I guess the Lincoln memorial should be demolished too.

[Cannot think of a name]

He seems pretty confident in identifying where that line lies with everyone else, though.

I can only eyeball it, from personal experience I know for a fact many Americans worship the founders though.

Self awareness roll...oh, critical fail. Ya hate to see that.

[Kathol Rift]

What? You want to demolish the Vietnam veterans memorial? What is your rationale for that?

Not only did the United States fight on the wrong side of the VIetnam War, the army also committed many war crimes.

I'd be fine with an apology memorial to those who got drafted, though.

“Hey, here’s a memorial to you guys that got drafted for that war. Sorry about that. Wait, what? You guys liked that memorial for the people who gave up their lives? Nah, fuck that. Ya know, unjustified war and all that, so they don’t get a memorial.”

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

He seems pretty confident in identifying where that line lies with everyone else, though.

I can only eyeball it, from personal experience I know for a fact many Americans worship the founders though.

Again, people often can’t help idolizing some. I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill with this line of thinking.

[Ethel mermania]

The founding fathers were racists and hypocrites.

There, I pointed out the elephant in the room.

They were for the most part racists, how were they hypocrits?

[The Two Jerseys]

Good thing I don't like the Industrial Revolution.

Oh god

That's because white people started it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I mean if you really want to be technical, Claudius was the founder of modern England

Claudius was pre-Anglo-Saxon era and England is the English nation so I disagree. The USA was founded explicitly by WASPs and its society was based around that culture AFAIK, while Roman Britain was Roman and Celtic, and faded long before the Germanics rolled in.

Æthelstan doesn’t get enough credit, yes. And he should. He was quite the king, considering how short his reign was.

Agreed. Other notable individuals I recognise are, of course, Elizabeth I and Winston Churchill among others. Though they weren’t really founders.

Contributors all in their own way to the continuation of your country.

[Cordel One]

...because he actually made contributions to society worth making a statue for instead of founding some garbage nation.

Inspiring incompetent followers to murder millions of people is a contribution to society?

"Blommunidm is when you kill 999999(a lot) of people"
-Carl Mark

[Cordel One]

Oh god

That's because white people started it.

?

[No State Here]

They were humans, they did good things and bad things. They shouldn’t be worshipped like gods, at the same time shouldn’t be criticized by the standards of today as well

[Loben III]

Oh god

That's because white people started it.

Reject civilization return to monkey.