2020 US General Election Thread X: For Those About to Vote

[Valrifell]

It feels like love to the winners. But it feels like war to the losers. It's a funny kind of war.

That it does. I'm just hoping i'll be home by Christmas.

That's just unrealistic. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day.

[Cordel One]

You’d think if throwing minorities under the bus was on the agenda, I’d be the first one to oppose it being a minority myself. But the reality is, both parties are doing exactly that, which is why I oppose both

So which minorities are the Dems throwing under the proverbial bus?

Palestinians and Middle Eastern people?

[San Lumen]

So which minorities are the Dems throwing under the proverbial bus?

Palestinians and Middle Eastern people?

explain.

[Valrifell]

Palestinians and Middle Eastern people?

explain.

Libya and, well, endless support for Israel.

[Cordel One]

Palestinians and Middle Eastern people?

explain.

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

[West Leas Oros 2]

That it does. I'm just hoping i'll be home by Christmas.

That's just unrealistic. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day.

Well shit. Back to the trenches for me, I guess.

[No State Here]

explain.

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

I agree for the Iraq issue, but saying a country commits war crimes isn’t much of a reason to cut support since every standing army has committed war crimes in the past

[San Lumen]

explain.

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on? There are far more important things facing the country than that. I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

[Ifreann]

Who said you were? The post that you suggested was a misrepresentation was not addressed to you.

This is NSG, people lump each other together all the time. You expect me to not come to the defense of someone who is saying what i'm saying, even if his interpretation of those words is different? Of course not. But alright, I apologize for mistaking the response as a response to me. In my own case, what say you when a leftist talks of dropping the "culture war thing"?

Rather sounds like the same thing, throwing vulnerable minorities under the bus to gain power. Which doesn't sound very working class solidarity to me.

---

The people who are making the term "fascist" useless are people who make this argument. If the only people we call fascists are the ones openly heiling Hitler or calling for an immediate race war or whatever, then the other fascists need only behave a little better in public, keep the heiling private, and they'll be able to build support for fascism by a different name. Remember when Richard Spencer was getting fawning write ups in the media? Fucker puts on a suit and gels his hair and people fail to realise that the ethno-state he wants would necessarily require genocide. Everyone who was calling Spencer a fascist were right, and everyone making this "Ugh, don't you leftos know that you can't just call everyone a fascist" were only helping Spencer get away with being a fascist.

Trying to equate Richard Spencer with most Republicans is intellectually dishonest.

I'm not equating Richard Spencer with anyone, he's just a convenient example of a well dressed fascist who takes advantage of the claim that the left is calling anyone they disagree with a fascist to hide that he's a fascist. Obviously he was successful.

If you genuinely believe that tens of millions of Americans are sympathetic to fascism, the battle is already lost.

Not at all.

The reality is that fascism has a strict definition, given by its creators Evola and Mussolini. You are free to point out authoritarian tendencies but don't act like we're reliving the 1930s.

My whole point is that fascists now are going to try and create the impression that they are not fascists, and to that end they will take advantage of the whole "Leftists just using 'fascist' as an insult" meme. Fascists want fascism to exclusively be Hitlerist or Mussolini-ist fascism so that they can hide the fact that they're fascists by acting just a little different from those fascists.

[Estanglia]

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on? There are far more important things facing the country than that. I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

Probably because war crimes have meant the death of thousands, if not millions, and nobody seems to give a shit about it.

[Cordel One]

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on? There are far more important things facing the country than that. I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

You asked me to explain "which minorities are the Dems throwing under the proverbial bus", right?

Also, war crimes are mass atrocities that go widely unrecognized. They're a much bigger deal than people make of them.

[Shrillland]

A ballot drop box in the Los Angeles suburb of Baldwin Park, CA, was intentionally burnt down last night, and as many as 200 ballots inside were destroyed: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us/elections/ballot-box-fire-california.html

A drop-off box for ballots in the Los Angeles suburb of Baldwin Park was intentionally set on fire on Sunday night, ruining a collection of completed ballots before firefighters could put out the blaze, local officials said.

The police are collecting video footage and investigating the incident as arson. There were more than 200 ballots inside, Mayor Manuel Lozano of Baldwin Park told CBS Los Angeles.

Firefighters dropped a hose into the ballot box to put out the flames, then cut open the box and removed dozens of damaged ballots, which appeared to be charred or soaked.

“We’re going to save as many ballots as we can,” a firefighter can be heard saying in a video taken by a bystander.

The Los Angeles County Registrar’s office said in a statement that it would notify voters whose ballots were affected “and will ensure they can exercise their fundamental right to vote.”

Hilda L. Solis, a Los Angeles County supervisor, said the fire had “all the signs of an attempt to disenfranchise voters and call into question the security of our elections.”

“Tampering, or attempts to tamper, with our democracy will not be tolerated,” she said.

At the time of the fire, it had been nearly 36 hours since the last time ballots had last been picked up from the box. The registrar’s office said it was “immediately increasing the frequency of ballot pickup at all other boxes.”

In addition to the Los Angeles police investigation, the registrar’s office reported the incident to the F.B.I. and the attorney general.

The county will inform those whose ballots were rendered unreadable and give them another ballot to fill out.

[San Lumen]

A ballot drop box in the Los Angeles suburb of Baldwin Park, CA, was intentionally burnt down last night, and as many as 200 ballots inside were destroyed: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us/elections/ballot-box-fire-california.html

A drop-off box for ballots in the Los Angeles suburb of Baldwin Park was intentionally set on fire on Sunday night, ruining a collection of completed ballots before firefighters could put out the blaze, local officials said.

The police are collecting video footage and investigating the incident as arson. There were more than 200 ballots inside, Mayor Manuel Lozano of Baldwin Park told CBS Los Angeles.

Firefighters dropped a hose into the ballot box to put out the flames, then cut open the box and removed dozens of damaged ballots, which appeared to be charred or soaked.

“We’re going to save as many ballots as we can,” a firefighter can be heard saying in a video taken by a bystander.

The Los Angeles County Registrar’s office said in a statement that it would notify voters whose ballots were affected “and will ensure they can exercise their fundamental right to vote.”

Hilda L. Solis, a Los Angeles County supervisor, said the fire had “all the signs of an attempt to disenfranchise voters and call into question the security of our elections.”

“Tampering, or attempts to tamper, with our democracy will not be tolerated,” she said.

At the time of the fire, it had been nearly 36 hours since the last time ballots had last been picked up from the box. The registrar’s office said it was “immediately increasing the frequency of ballot pickup at all other boxes.”

In addition to the Los Angeles police investigation, the registrar’s office reported the incident to the F.B.I. and the attorney general.

The county will inform those whose ballots were rendered unreadable and give them another ballot to fill out.

Textbook voter suppression and the state GOP and Trump will say nothing about it.

[Kowani]

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on?

They’re a good indicator of the country’s moral standards.

There are far more important things facing the country than that.

To you, sure. To the victims of those war crimes? Not really.

I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

Yes, the American political culture tells us not to care about people in foreign countries.
This is a bad thing.

[Post War America]

Well, for starters we have the Iraq War (among many others), which was started for no legitimate reason. We also have the continuous support for Israel and the IDF, which have a long history of war crimes and atrocities. Would you like me to go on or elaborate on any of this?

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on? There are far more important things facing the country than that. I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

Lumen when the US engages in War Crimes and supports states that do: I sleep

Lumen when Trump says mean things on Twitter: Serious Business

[Valrifell]

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on?

They’re a good indicator of the country’s moral standards.

States are inherently amoral and machiavellian, the "morals" of a government do not reflect meaningfully to the people of the nation, if it even makes sense to moralize a state.

[Valrifell]

Why are war crimes the sole thing you focus on? There are far more important things facing the country than that. I doubt the average person is thinking about that.

Lumen when the US engages in War Crimes and supports states that do: I sleep

Lumen when Trump says mean things on Twitter: Serious Business

Yes it's just the Twitter not the climate denialism or the herd immunity pandemic strategy

[Kowani]

They’re a good indicator of the country’s moral standards.

States are inherently amoral and machiavellian, the "morals" of a government do not reflect meaningfully to the people of the nation, if it even makes sense to moralize a state.

Sigh
Moral standards here should be understood not as the morality of the state itself, but the moral standards of the populace at large. While I do not have data on “war crimes per country”, we can look at the societal reaction to one’s government committing them, and see which societies celebrate or excuse them. (Though it’s also worth noting that who the enemy is still plays a role in that reception).

[Post War America]

Lumen when the US engages in War Crimes and supports states that do: I sleep

Lumen when Trump says mean things on Twitter: Serious Business

Yes it's just the Twitter not the climate denialism or the herd immunity pandemic strategy

It's a joke, but if you must insist on engaging in tone policing to defend this shit than fine.

If somebody is willing to support states that engage in war crimes, it doesn't exactly demonstrate enough concern for others to be concerned about other issues.

And for the record, Lumen has openly supported what is effectively a herd immunity pandemic strategy several times on the Rona Thread.

[Valrifell]

States are inherently amoral and machiavellian, the "morals" of a government do not reflect meaningfully to the people of the nation, if it even makes sense to moralize a state.

Sigh
Moral standards here should be understood not as the morality of the state itself, but the moral standards of the populace at large. While I do not have data on “war crimes per country”, we can look at the societal reaction to one’s government committing them, and see which societies celebrate or excuse them. (Though it’s also worth noting that who the enemy is still plays a role in that reception).

But again there's a disconnect between the actions of the government and the moral idelas of the population. The government has better control over that kind of information, so.

Absolve yourself of the guilt of W. Bush.

[Valrifell]

Yes it's just the Twitter not the climate denialism or the herd immunity pandemic strategy

It's a joke, but if you must insist on engaging in tone policing to defend this shit than fine.

If somebody is willing to support states that engage in war crimes, it doesn't exactly demonstrate enough concern for others to be concerned about other issues.

And for the record, Lumen has openly supported what is effectively a herd immunity pandemic strategy several times on the Rona Thread.

I don't think you understand what tone policing means.

You've also set an arbitrary political standard which boils down to "people can't have opinions unless we happen to agree" which needless to say is not very cash money.

I can participate in the duopoly of American power without condoning the fucking war crimes of the government.

[Post War America]

It's a joke, but if you must insist on engaging in tone policing to defend this shit than fine.

If somebody is willing to support states that engage in war crimes, it doesn't exactly demonstrate enough concern for others to be concerned about other issues.

And for the record, Lumen has openly supported what is effectively a herd immunity pandemic strategy several times on the Rona Thread.

I don't think you understand what tone policing means.

You've also set an arbitrary political standard which boils down to "people can't have opinions unless we happen to agree" which needless to say is not very cash money.

Okay so uh, what's the likelihood that people who dismiss the murder of civilians, mass rape, and other crimes to actually care about climate change, or think that public health is more important than the economy?

[Kowani]

Sigh
Moral standards here should be understood not as the morality of the state itself, but the moral standards of the populace at large. While I do not have data on “war crimes per country”, we can look at the societal reaction to one’s government committing them, and see which societies celebrate or excuse them. (Though it’s also worth noting that who the enemy is still plays a role in that reception).

But again there's a disconnect between the actions of the government and the moral idelas of the population.

Yes. That is why I specifically talked about the public reaction to it.

The government has better control over that kind of information, so.

This is a legitimate point.

Absolve yourself of the guilt of W. Bush.

I wasn’t living in America at the time. A bit hard to be guilty.

[Valrifell]

I don't think you understand what tone policing means.

You've also set an arbitrary political standard which boils down to "people can't have opinions unless we happen to agree" which needless to say is not very cash money.

Okay so uh, what's the likelihood that people who dismiss the murder of civilians, mass rape, and other crimes to actually care about climate change, or think that public health is more important than the economy?

Not everything plays nicely into this reductionist black and white worldview you've established.

You're preaching at me that war crimes are bad - bravo. I accept that neither party is going to improve on that front, I reject that this means I should look down my nose at people who think we can do something about the other global issues confronting us right now.

I care about war crimes, I accept it's pointless to make it the crux of my political ideology since there's no interest in that dialogue at the moment. Voting for one of the major parties for other issues doesn't mean you like the rape of children or whatever, that's a blatantly ridiculous false narrative you've created to feel cool.

[Post War America]

Okay so uh, what's the likelihood that people who dismiss the murder of civilians, mass rape, and other crimes to actually care about climate change, or think that public health is more important than the economy?

Not everything plays nicely into this reductionist black and white worldview you've established.

You're preaching at me that war crimes are bad - bravo. I accept that neither party is going to improve on that front, I reject that this means I should look down my nose at people who think we can do something about the other global issues confronting us right now.

I care about war crimes, I accept it's pointless to make it the crux of my political ideology since there's no interest in that dialogue at the moment. Voting for one of the major parties for other issues doesn't mean you like the rape of children or whatever, that's a blatantly ridiculous false narrative you've created to feel cool.

Sure, but you're also not the person saying we shouldn't care about them. Its one thing to participate in the busted system, I acknowledge that it has its own utility or even necessity. It is another to dismiss concerns about it, which is what I was mocking.