2020 US General Election Thread X: For Those About to Vote

[Senkaku]

I mean, turnabout's fair play, why should they pay attention to urban areas?

Washington Republicans can't win statewide. The best thing to do would be to block everything that they possibly can at all times. Maybe get some concessions.

I feel like by now Republicans should have picked up on the fact that this kind of scorched earth mindset is actually just likely to get people mad at them and more open to leftist persuasion? Sure, maybe for a couple years you can obstruct things and take a wrecking ball to every political institution around (though probably not in WA rn, since the Democrats have both houses and I doubt they're going to lose ground this year), but in the end you just harden your opponents' resolve, drive people away from conservatism, and make them more open to persuasion by arguments from the left. Unless your intent is to depart entirely from the democratic process (which is a whole different can of worms), it's unlikely to be a good strategy for securing policy goals or political power.

[United Hemand Insia]

So he should only do what rural areas want and ignore urban areas?


How are they going to do that when they don't hold the legislature and only hold one statewide office?

Pritzker, form his perspective, should continue doing what he is doing. Why should he have to listen to rural voters? He has enough support in the Chicago area to win re-election, and keep a Democratic legislature, just fine.

Just like how Republicans ignore urban areas.

And in Washington, didn't state legislators leave the state to prevent some climate bill from passing?

No, we're too stupid.

[Arlenton]

Pritzker, form his perspective, should continue doing what he is doing. Why should he have to listen to rural voters? He has enough support in the Chicago area to win re-election, and keep a Democratic legislature, just fine.

Just like how Republicans ignore urban areas.

And in Washington, didn't state legislators leave the state to prevent some climate bill from passing?

I dont think any area should be ignored.

Your thinking of Oregon.

Ah I see.

But the thing is, no one can please everybody. Especially when different groups are diametrically opposed to each other on everything.

[San Lumen]

I dont think any area should be ignored.

Your thinking of Oregon.

Ah I see.

But the thing is, no one can please everybody. Especially when different groups are diametrically opposed to each other on everything.

what do you propose?

[United Hemand Insia]

I mean, turnabout's fair play, why should they pay attention to urban areas?

Washington Republicans can't win statewide. The best thing to do would be to block everything that they possibly can at all times. Maybe get some concessions.

It's inevitable that at least House of Reps is dominated by Democrats.

[Arlenton]

Washington Republicans can't win statewide. The best thing to do would be to block everything that they possibly can at all times. Maybe get some concessions.

I feel like by now Republicans should have picked up on the fact that this kind of scorched earth mindset is actually just likely to get people mad at them and more open to leftist persuasion? Sure, maybe for a couple years you can obstruct things and take a wrecking ball to every political institution around (though probably not in WA rn, since the Democrats have both houses and I doubt they're going to lose ground this year), but in the end you just harden your opponents' resolve, drive people away from conservatism, and make them more open to persuasion by arguments from the left. Unless your intent is to depart entirely from the democratic process (which is a whole different can of worms), it's unlikely to be a good strategy for securing policy goals or political power.

It worked fine from 2009 to 2016. Even got us a 6-3 Supreme Court.

[Senkaku]

Howie Hawkins is the green party candidate for the 2020 election.

Given that I've repeatedly said I'd rather be flayed living than vote for the Greens, the idea of trying to paint me as some myopic foot-stamping 2016-redux Bernie Bro archetype is pretty funny. I've already mailed in my ballot for Biden; unfortunately Black Forrest is going to have to get used to the idea that this doesn't mean I won't criticize him on anything.

[Valrifell]

I feel like by now Republicans should have picked up on the fact that this kind of scorched earth mindset is actually just likely to get people mad at them and more open to leftist persuasion? Sure, maybe for a couple years you can obstruct things and take a wrecking ball to every political institution around (though probably not in WA rn, since the Democrats have both houses and I doubt they're going to lose ground this year), but in the end you just harden your opponents' resolve, drive people away from conservatism, and make them more open to persuasion by arguments from the left. Unless your intent is to depart entirely from the democratic process (which is a whole different can of worms), it's unlikely to be a good strategy for securing policy goals or political power.

It worked fine from 2009 to 2016. Even got us a 6-3 Supreme Court.

It's all fun and games until the guillotines get wheeled out...

[Telconi]

I mean, turnabout's fair play, why should they pay attention to urban areas?

I mean good luck even winning the state in the first place with that attitude. Inslee's going to win by his largest margin yet.

I mean it's Washington, place is a lost cause anyhow.

[San Lumen]

I mean good luck even winning the state in the first place with that attitude. Inslee's going to win by his largest margin yet.

I mean it's Washington, place is a lost cause anyhow.

No it isn't.

[Arlenton]

Ah I see.

But the thing is, no one can please everybody. Especially when different groups are diametrically opposed to each other on everything.

what do you propose?

I propose the Mitch McConnell strategy.

But I assume you mean for compromise. And I can't tell you, because I have no idea how it would work. How can I compromise my rights, and how can I compromise with others who feel I threaten theirs?

[Telconi]

Pritzker, form his perspective, should continue doing what he is doing. Why should he have to listen to rural voters? He has enough support in the Chicago area to win re-election, and keep a Democratic legislature, just fine.

Just like how Republicans ignore urban areas.

And in Washington, didn't state legislators leave the state to prevent some climate bill from passing?

I dont think any area should be ignored.

Your thinking of Oregon.

No matter how much you claim to think people ought to do the impossible, the impossible remains impossible.

[Senkaku]

I feel like by now Republicans should have picked up on the fact that this kind of scorched earth mindset is actually just likely to get people mad at them and more open to leftist persuasion? Sure, maybe for a couple years you can obstruct things and take a wrecking ball to every political institution around (though probably not in WA rn, since the Democrats have both houses and I doubt they're going to lose ground this year), but in the end you just harden your opponents' resolve, drive people away from conservatism, and make them more open to persuasion by arguments from the left. Unless your intent is to depart entirely from the democratic process (which is a whole different can of worms), it's unlikely to be a good strategy for securing policy goals or political power.

It worked fine from 2009 to 2016. Even got us a 6-3 Supreme Court.

So, after a historic defeat in '08 (caused by the GOP-led failures of the previous 8 years), it led to worsening political and social conditions for seven years, and now appears to be setting the stage either for another historic defeat or the emergence of an authoritarian regime?

Even if your time horizon is only seven years out and you don't care about anything after that, it doesn't seem like it's going so well. At best it could be characterized as a very Pyrrhic victory, I would probably think of it as a tactical victory but a strategic catastrophe (at least working from the assumption that you and other proponents of this strategy care about the long-term viability of the US and liberal democracy).

[Ngelmish]

Examples?

not on board with medicare for all, a green new deal, bussing, very much on board with fracking, some very tough stuff in his record to defend ('94, Iraq)

you can't seriously be arguing he's just as progressive as Sanders or AOC, can you? I feel like that's moving beyond semantic warfare into just abandoning any sense of a shared reality

Yeah, but if you go back to the original claim, it's specifically that they're not as socially progressive various other examples. And honestly, it's reductive, if not outright bad history. By the cultural standards of the 90's, the Clintons' were pretty reflexively socially liberal, regardless of what one thinks of that prevailing culture. It's a cute gotcha, but it's not good analysis.

As to the substance of the complaint? Honestly, the best attack line the Republicans have had on Biden since the primary, and one that they've never consistently applied, is that he's a cipher. Hard to say what Biden actually shows up to the White House, should he get there. Skepticism that we get transformative Biden is warranted, but so is skepticism that we get Biden who is a caricature of neoliberalism as a pejorative, rather than ideological, term, particularly from people who who, if they are consistent on their policy aims would have been deeply disappointed by the inevitable compromises of a Sanders presidency.

[Vassenor]

I feel like by now Republicans should have picked up on the fact that this kind of scorched earth mindset is actually just likely to get people mad at them and more open to leftist persuasion? Sure, maybe for a couple years you can obstruct things and take a wrecking ball to every political institution around (though probably not in WA rn, since the Democrats have both houses and I doubt they're going to lose ground this year), but in the end you just harden your opponents' resolve, drive people away from conservatism, and make them more open to persuasion by arguments from the left. Unless your intent is to depart entirely from the democratic process (which is a whole different can of worms), it's unlikely to be a good strategy for securing policy goals or political power.

It worked fine from 2009 to 2016. Even got us a 6-3 Supreme Court.

And this is an objectively good thing how?

[San Lumen]

what do you propose?

I propose the Mitch McConnell strategy.

But I assume you mean for compromise. And I can't tell you, because I have no idea how it would work. How can I compromise my rights, and how can I compromise with others who feel I threaten theirs?

That';s not a sustainable way to run a state or country.

Lets say you were governor what would you do?

[Telconi]

It worked fine from 2009 to 2016. Even got us a 6-3 Supreme Court.

And this is an objectively good thing how?

It's not.

[United Hemand Insia]

I mean good luck even winning the state in the first place with that attitude. Inslee's going to win by his largest margin yet.

I mean it's Washington, place is a lost cause anyhow.

too true

[United Hemand Insia]

I mean it's Washington, place is a lost cause anyhow.

No it isn't.

It is.

[San Lumen]

No it isn't.

It is.

And with rhetoric like that this is why they dont win statewide.

[Senkaku]

so is skepticism that we get Biden who is a caricature of neoliberalism as a pejorative, rather than ideological, term, particularly from people who who, if they are consistent on their policy aims would have been deeply disappointed by the inevitable compromises of a Sanders presidency.

I don't think, given the news that he's considering all these Republican cabinet appointees, that there's a lot of reason to be skeptical of the idea that we are in for more of the neoliberal (pejorative) Biden than we are for the transformational Biden.

I'm sure I would've been disappointed by the compromises of a Sanders presidency too, but I at least don't think he would've even considered allowing his cabinet to be hijacked by a bunch of right-wing ideologues like Kasich.

[Telconi]

It is.

And with rhetoric like that this is why they dont win statewide.

I'd rather be good than victorious.

[Senkaku]

And with rhetoric like that this is why they dont win statewide.

I'd rather be good than victorious.

Translation: You'd rather own the libs than implement policy

[The Huskar Social Union]

Howie Hawkins is the green party candidate for the 2020 election.

Given that I've repeatedly said I'd rather be flayed living than vote for the Greens, the idea of trying to paint me as some myopic foot-stamping 2016-redux Bernie Bro archetype is pretty funny. I've already mailed in my ballot for Biden; unfortunately Black Forrest is going to have to get used to the idea that this doesn't mean I won't criticize him on anything.

Just be glad you are not actually voting green, ive seen green voters and supporters called entitled, privileged, that they are wasting their vote, that they (and this one is a spicy take) hate women and minorities by voting green. Just being treated like general shite, which is of course the best plan to get them to vote differently.

Granted, most of that is on twitter and twitter is a fucking shithole of a website so cant be too surprised on there.

[Telconi]

I'd rather be good than victorious.

Translation: You'd rather own the libs than implement policy

Owning the libs is policy.