"Sex-Work"

[Galloism]

I mean, technically, unless you’re independently wealthy, we all sell ourselves to survive.

If you work a desk turning your brain power into money, you’re selling yourself to survive - selling to your employer the use of your own brain during working hours.

I'm paid to turn off my brain for upwards of 10 hours a day and lift heavy shit and carry it around. I'd love to never have to work for anyone again but that's how it goes living in a capitalist society.

Barring some kind of robotic revolution where we have robot slaves doing all the work, that’s likely how it’s going to work regardless of economic system.

[Estanglia]

I'm generally for either decriminalising it or legalising it.

Criminalising it hasn't prevented it from occurring, and it hasn't prevented any of the problems with it. I also strongly doubt that any of the problems with it can be solved whilst keeping it a punishable act.

Decriminalise/legalise it, and work to solve the problems with it.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You ever just stop and think about how sometimes a hypersexual society can be as oppressive and awful as a society that makes sex taboo and bans premarital sex by law?

Damn, there are women out there literally having sex just to be able to eat, and this shit is okay?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I'm paid to turn off my brain for upwards of 10 hours a day and lift heavy shit and carry it around. I'd love to never have to work for anyone again but that's how it goes living in a capitalist society.

Barring some kind of robotic revolution where we have robot slaves doing all the work, that’s likely how it’s going to work regardless of economic system.

The difference is that I have to work for someone else's profit and all I get are crumbs in return. Imagine if the efforts of your labor were all for yourself?

[The Reformed American Republic]

Sex work is work. Sex workers should receive the full value of their labour and control the conditions under which they work, same as every other worker, and any and all moves towards that are Good™.

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I think being a pimp should be punishable by death and trafficked prostitutes shouldn't be arrested or imprisoned for any reason, but instead brought to a shelter to be helped.

Walk me through why a manager in that specific profession should be executed but not every manager in every profession.

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How can it be legal to buy but not to sell or vise versa? Nothing to buy if there's nothing to sell and vice versa.

Sometimes people do crimes.

Google human trafficking and get back to me. Better yet, stop being deliberately obtuse.

[Galloism]

Barring some kind of robotic revolution where we have robot slaves doing all the work, that’s likely how it’s going to work regardless of economic system.

The difference is that I have to work for someone else's profit and all I get are crumbs in return. Imagine if the efforts of your labor were all for yourself?

That would be an improvement yes.

But you’d still get to work all day. It would just be for the Motherland. Or Fatherland.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

The difference is that I have to work for someone else's profit and all I get are crumbs in return. Imagine if the efforts of your labor were all for yourself?

That would be an improvement yes.

But you’d still get to work all day. It would just be for the Motherland. Or Fatherland.

I'm not against work. I'm against working for someone else while being treated like a dog. I'd much rather live in a society virtually free of exploitation. Working for corporations really sucks.

[Galloism]

That would be an improvement yes.

But you’d still get to work all day. It would just be for the Motherland. Or Fatherland.

I'm not against work. I'm against working for someone else while being treated like a dog. I'd much rather live in a society virtually free of exploitation. Working for corporations really sucks.

You could live on a farm. Grow your own food, sell the excess. Still some exploitation there to get your equipment repaired and stuff, but a lot less.

[Ethel mermania]

That would be an improvement yes.

But you’d still get to work all day. It would just be for the Motherland. Or Fatherland.

I'm not against work. I'm against working for someone else while being treated like a dog. I'd much rather live in a society virtually free of exploitation. Working for corporations really sucks.

not if you are not bottom rung. Corperate jobs can be very interesting

[Nobel Hobos 2]

It should be legal, regulated, and taxed.

Regulation will allow STI screening and treatment.

To ensure compliance sex workers should work with a professional pimp.

Pimp's get a bad name but they ensure sex workers are protected, have plenty of customers, and get more per customer.

Source: SuperFreakonomics chapter 1. Sorry they protect their IP.

Pimps can also be used to prevent sex trafficking. Pimps will be licensed and made mandatory reporters of sex trafficking and children in the trade. They will be trained to spot these practices in their licensing and failure to report them could result in loss of license and possible jail time.

Why are pimps the first thing that springs to mind, to protect sex workers?

If it was any other dangerous profession, the first suggestion would be a gun.

[Greed and Death]

It should be legal, regulated, and taxed.

Regulation will allow STI screening and treatment.

To ensure compliance sex workers should work with a professional pimp.

Pimp's get a bad name but they ensure sex workers are protected, have plenty of customers, and get more per customer.

Source: SuperFreakonomics chapter 1. Sorry they protect their IP.

Pimps can also be used to prevent sex trafficking. Pimps will be licensed and made mandatory reporters of sex trafficking and children in the trade. They will be trained to spot these practices in their licensing and failure to report them could result in loss of license and possible jail time.

Why are pimps the first thing that springs to mind, to protect sex workers?

If it was any other dangerous profession, the first suggestion would be a gun.

It is hard to be able to always use a gun in a profession where the first thing you do is get naked.

[Greed and Death]

A couple problems with legalization, from my perspective, being employed (i.e. dependent upon others for survival) is coercive, and so sex work is also coercive (this is true under capitalism as a rule), and secondly, when we talk about regulating sex work, we are talking about regulating the sex that people are having. Why is it that in other cases, people are inclined to say that the government doesn't belong in people's bedrooms, but when money is exchanged, suddenly the government can go nuts?

Because it's generally accepted that one of the basic purviews of government is to moderate contracts and prevent abuse, sadly abuse is far too common in the sex industry atm.

You can mitigate that with licensing requirements for Pimps and Brothels. A worker files a complaint and it is validated a pimp or brothel would lose their liscense. Is it worth risking your access to the more profitable legal sex industry to squeeze that last trick out of your tired worker ? I would say not.

[Ifreann]

Sex work is work. Sex workers should receive the full value of their labour and control the conditions under which they work, same as every other worker, and any and all moves towards that are Good™.

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Walk me through why a manager in that specific profession should be executed but not every manager in every profession.

---

Sometimes people do crimes.

Google human trafficking and get back to me. Better yet, stop being deliberately obtuse.

If I'm being obtuse it isn't deliberate. Pimps are just managers for prostitutes. They're bosses, who claim grossly disproportionate amounts of the wealth generated by those in their employ. Just like bosses in every other profession. I'm sure some are involved in far more serious wrongdoing than just exploiting their workers for profit, as you say. But so are bosses in other professions. People are not only trafficked for sex work. People are trafficked into agricultural labour, domestic labour, people are trafficked just to serve as contraband mules. Would you suggest that everyone who owns a farm be hanged because of human trafficking? I rather doubt that. Maybe just the ones actually involved with human trafficking? So why, then, do you want to hang all pimps?

[Purpelia]

Why are pimps the first thing that springs to mind, to protect sex workers?

If it was any other dangerous profession, the first suggestion would be a gun.

For the same reasons we have bouncers in bars and my IT company works in a building with a security guard. Self defense is nice and all but being on guard all the time drops productivity where as a safe and pleasant workplace does the opposite.

[Greed and Death]

Google human trafficking and get back to me. Better yet, stop being deliberately obtuse.

If I'm being obtuse it isn't deliberate. Pimps are just managers for prostitutes. They're bosses, who claim grossly disproportionate amounts of the wealth generated by those in their employ. Just like bosses in every other profession. I'm sure some are involved in far more serious wrongdoing than just exploiting their workers for profit, as you say. But so are bosses in other professions. People are not only trafficked for sex work. People are trafficked into agricultural labour, domestic labour, people are trafficked just to serve as contraband mules. Would you suggest that everyone who owns a farm be hanged because of human trafficking? I rather doubt that. Maybe just the ones actually involved with human trafficking? So why, then, do you want to hang all pimps?

Pimps are also security and sales people. They add value. A prostitute with a pimp makes more per client and see more clients. Yes some pimps are involved in bad stuff. But that can be mitigated by licensing and regulation.

[Punished UMN]

A couple problems with legalization, from my perspective, being employed (i.e. dependent upon others for survival) is coercive, and so sex work is also coercive (this is true under capitalism as a rule), and secondly, when we talk about regulating sex work, we are talking about regulating the sex that people are having. Why is it that in other cases, people are inclined to say that the government doesn't belong in people's bedrooms, but when money is exchanged, suddenly the government can go nuts?

Because it's generally accepted that one of the basic purviews of government is to moderate contracts and prevent abuse, sadly abuse is far too common in the sex industry atm.

How does the government regulate contracts between private individuals with regard to something as intimate as sex? What counts as a contract? If a kid sets up a lemonade stand, should the government regulate that too?

[Purpelia]

Because it's generally accepted that one of the basic purviews of government is to moderate contracts and prevent abuse, sadly abuse is far too common in the sex industry atm.

How does the government regulate contracts between private individuals with regard to something as intimate as sex? What counts as a contract? If a kid sets up a lemonade stand, should the government regulate that too?

If a kid makes it his profession to live life off earning a keep by selling lemonade yes it should. Really this is just simple business law. Above a certain income regulate it, bellow a certain income don't.

[Greed and Death]

Because it's generally accepted that one of the basic purviews of government is to moderate contracts and prevent abuse, sadly abuse is far too common in the sex industry atm.

How does the government regulate contracts between private individuals with regard to something as intimate as sex?

They do criminalize money being in the transaction.

[Punished UMN]

How does the government regulate contracts between private individuals with regard to something as intimate as sex? What counts as a contract? If a kid sets up a lemonade stand, should the government regulate that too?

If a kid makes it his profession to live life off earning a keep by selling lemonade yes it should. Really this is just simple business law. Above a certain income regulate it, bellow a certain income don't.

But then it's still open to abuse if you don't regulate it. Why should a prostitute who makes money off of wanting to have sex be treated differently (needing a license, needing mandatory STI testing, having to make contracts, etc.) be treated any differently than a person who casually hooks up with the same number of people for no money?

[Greed and Death]

If a kid makes it his profession to live life off earning a keep by selling lemonade yes it should. Really this is just simple business law. Above a certain income regulate it, bellow a certain income don't.

But then it's still open to abuse if you don't regulate it. Why should a prostitute who makes money off of wanting to have sex be treated differently (needing a license, needing mandatory STI testing, having to make contracts, etc.) be treated any differently than a person who casually hooks up with the same number of people for no money?

Because when you pay for something it becomes commerce and governments tend to regulate commerce to ensure safety and fair deals.

[Ifreann]

If I'm being obtuse it isn't deliberate. Pimps are just managers for prostitutes. They're bosses, who claim grossly disproportionate amounts of the wealth generated by those in their employ. Just like bosses in every other profession. I'm sure some are involved in far more serious wrongdoing than just exploiting their workers for profit, as you say. But so are bosses in other professions. People are not only trafficked for sex work. People are trafficked into agricultural labour, domestic labour, people are trafficked just to serve as contraband mules. Would you suggest that everyone who owns a farm be hanged because of human trafficking? I rather doubt that. Maybe just the ones actually involved with human trafficking? So why, then, do you want to hang all pimps?

Pimps are also security and sales people. They add value. A prostitute with a pimp makes more per client and see more clients. Yes some pimps are involved in bad stuff. But that can be mitigated by licensing and regulation.

I'm sure that pimps can contribute to a brothel in the same way that managers can contribute to other workplaces. That'd be fine if they were doing it as equal partners with the other workers.

[Greed and Death]

Pimps are also security and sales people. They add value. A prostitute with a pimp makes more per client and see more clients. Yes some pimps are involved in bad stuff. But that can be mitigated by licensing and regulation.

I'm sure that pimps can contribute to a brothel in the same way that managers can contribute to other workplaces. That'd be fine if they were doing it as equal partners with the other workers.

That is what regulation is for. Profits would also go up because easier to use venues would be allowed rather than hotels.

[Punished UMN]

But then it's still open to abuse if you don't regulate it. Why should a prostitute who makes money off of wanting to have sex be treated differently (needing a license, needing mandatory STI testing, having to make contracts, etc.) be treated any differently than a person who casually hooks up with the same number of people for no money?

Because when you pay for something it becomes commerce and governments tend to regulate commerce to ensure safety and fair deals.

But when you do that, you are necessarily impeding people from free association, and, in some cases, may even be coercing them into "deals" they do not consent to. This is why sex work is dehumanizing, because it reduces sex and sexuality to a commodity to be bought and sold. It is, aside from slavery, the ultimate trivialization of the human condition.

[Purpelia]

But then it's still open to abuse if you don't regulate it. Why should a prostitute who makes money off of wanting to have sex be treated differently (needing a license, needing mandatory STI testing, having to make contracts, etc.) be treated any differently than a person who casually hooks up with the same number of people for no money?

Because when you pay for something it becomes commerce and governments tend to regulate commerce to ensure safety and fair deals.

THIS. Also taxation.

[Punished UMN]

Because when you pay for something it becomes commerce and governments tend to regulate commerce to ensure safety and fair deals.

THIS. Also taxation.

When you're mandating STI testing, you're no longer regulating the commercial aspect of sex work.