What did the Ancient Egyptians look like?

[Mostrov]

‎

[The Archregimancy]

I am aware that while Saīdi Egyptians look different from Lower Egyptians, not all of them are Nubians. But, I was referring to Egyptian Nubians. I am also aware at the efforts to erase the 25th Dynasty from history. Heck, Greek historians straight up skipped it.

Which historians?

It's an odd comment by Insaanistan since Herodotus, for one, explicitly discusses the 25th Dynasty.

He has the details wrong - he frames it entirely as an invasion by an 'Ethiopian' king called 'Sabacos', the actual 25th-Dynasty ruler Shabaka - but he definitely doesn't 'straight up skip it'. See The Histories Book 2: 137-139.

And while I suppose Manetho wasn't technically Greek - he was an Egyptian priest - he was working in the Hellenistic environment of Lower Egypt under the Ptolemies. Manetho's Aegyptiaca of course set up the traditional structure of dividing Egypt into dynasties, from the Classical period to the present. Manetho also describes the 25th Dynasty as 'Ethiopian', which was the Hellenistic understanding of Nubia, and gives it three kings, Sabacon, Sebichos, and Tarcus (Shabaka, Shebitku, and Taharqa). He ignores Piye, and probably gets Shabaka and Shebitku in the wrong order (though the latter was commonly believed until very recently), but he obviously didn't ignore them.

So I'm not sure what Insaanistan is referring to.

[Nazis in Space]

I choose to believe that they were blue with golden highlights.

And green polka dots.

[The Archregimancy]

I choose to believe that they were blue with golden highlights.

And green polka dots.

[Nazis in Space]

I choose to believe that they were blue with golden highlights.

And green polka dots.

Archaeology proves me right once more!

Also, does this mean the ancient aliens were really Orion/Asari/Na'vi/Tau?

[Roegerland]

Unfortunately skin colour seems to matter so much to a lot of people. In any case, the only legitimate argument that could be made with Gadot's casting is that she is a very beautiful woman whereas from the sources we have, Cleopatra was more seductive than beautiful.

[The Blaatschapen]

Archaeology proves me right once more!

Also, does this mean the ancient aliens were really Orion/Asari/Na'vi/Tau?

Smurfs.

[Nazis in Space]

Unfortunately race seems to matter so much to a lot of people. In any case, the only legitimate argument that could be made with Gadot's casting is that she is a very beautiful woman whereas from the sources we have, Cleopatra was more seductive than beautiful.

What does Caesar himself write about her, actually?

I wouldn't trust Octavianus or any of the later biographers farther than I can throw them, and I can't throw them because they're dead.

Archaeology proves me right once more!

Also, does this mean the ancient aliens were really Orion/Asari/Na'vi/Tau?

Smurfs.

A Smurfette is fine, too.

[The Archregimancy]

Unfortunately race seems to matter so much to a lot of people. In any case, the only legitimate argument that could be made with Gadot's casting is that she is a very beautiful woman whereas from the sources we have, Cleopatra was more seductive than beautiful.

What does Caesar himself write about her, actually?

To the best of my knowledge there are no surviving descriptions of Cleopatra VII written by either Julius Caesar or Mark Antony.

Rather than type out a summary myself this time, I'll lazily note there's a half-decent Encyclopaedia Britannica article summarising what's known about her physical appearance, focusing on whether she was beautiful or 'merely' charismatic, and briefly summarising the few Roman descriptions and the surviving art. It assumes we all know that she was a Hellenistic Greek. As I pointed out much, much earlier in the thread, 'what did Cleopatra look like' and 'what did the Ancient Egyptians look like' are two very different questions.

The closing sentence of the Britannica article offers a useful summary:

Ultimately, new media depictions might do well to consider much less the fraught question of whether Cleopatra was beautiful and instead focus on the fact that she was considered charming, charismatic, and brilliant.

[Albrenia]

They looked like a big bunch of jerks.

[Nazis in Space]

It assumes we all know that she was a Hellenistic Greek.

Then clearly, she looked like Zorba.

[Ethel mermania]

Archaeology proves me right once more!

Also, does this mean the ancient aliens were really Orion/Asari/Na'vi/Tau?

Smurfs.

Papa Smurf, Let my people go !

[Ethel mermania]

What does Caesar himself write about her, actually?

To the best of my knowledge there are no surviving descriptions of Cleopatra VII written by either Julius Caesar or Mark Antony.

Rather than type out a summary myself this time, I'll lazily note there's a half-decent Encyclopaedia Britannica article summarising what's known about her physical appearance, focusing on whether she was beautiful or 'merely' charismatic, and briefly summarising the few Roman descriptions and the surviving art. It assumes we all know that she was a Hellenistic Greek. As I pointed out much, much earlier in the thread, 'what did Cleopatra look like' and 'what did the Ancient Egyptians look like' are two very different questions.

The closing sentence of the Britannica article offers a useful summary:

Ultimately, new media depictions might do well to consider much less the fraught question of whether Cleopatra was beautiful and instead focus on the fact that she was considered charming, charismatic, and brilliant.

those things are kind of hard to capture in a photo-realistic drawing.

[Nazis in Space]

Smurfs.

Papa Smurf, Let my people go !

I've admittedly seen more flattering depictions of Moses...

[Ethel mermania]

Papa Smurf, Let my people go !

I've admittedly seen more flattering depictions of Moses...

Most lean towards Charlton Heston, not Phil Silvers

[Greed and Death]

I choose to believe that they were blue with golden highlights.

And green polka dots.

The photos prove it.

[Mostrov]

‎

[Baltenstein]

Unfortunately race seems to matter so much to a lot of people. In any case, the only legitimate argument that could be made with Gadot's casting is that she is a very beautiful woman whereas from the sources we have, Cleopatra was more seductive than beautiful.

What does Caesar himself write about her, actually?

Well, for one, there is this historic record:

[Woldoina]

Why is this a disscusion?

[Hardscrab]

Just to mess with everyone out there I’m going to create a new movie. In this movie every single white part will be cast to a black person, every single Asian character is going to be a Latino actor all of the Hispanic parts are going to have white actors, all of the black parts will have Asian actors. It’s going to be a really epic movie.

Honestly though. It’s like all society can care about is race. Everything is about race. Seriously we live in a racially driven culture, we are probably more racist now without realizing it than at many (I am not saying ALL) other parts of history. I mean where are these neo-Nazis coming from?

[The Blaatschapen]

<snip> I mean where are these neo-Nazis coming from?

4chan, mostly.

[Twicetagram and JYPe]

Why is this a disscusion?

because apparently some people just can't believe the fact that a Middle Eastern actor is playing as Cleopatra, an ancient Egyptian

Just to mess with everyone out there I’m going to create a new movie. In this movie every single white part will be cast to a black person, every single Asian character is going to be a Latino actor all of the Hispanic parts are going to have white actors, all of the black parts will have Asian actors. It’s going to be a really epic movie.

absolute madlad

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Which historians?

It's an odd comment by Insaanistan since Herodotus, for one, explicitly discusses the 25th Dynasty.

He has the details wrong - he frames it entirely as an invasion by an 'Ethiopian' king called 'Sabacos', the actual 25th-Dynasty ruler Shabaka - but he definitely doesn't 'straight up skip it'. See The Histories Book 2: 137-139.

And while I suppose Manetho wasn't technically Greek - he was an Egyptian priest - he was working in the Hellenistic environment of Lower Egypt under the Ptolemies. Manetho's Aegyptiaca of course set up the traditional structure of dividing Egypt into dynasties, from the Classical period to the present. Manetho also describes the 25th Dynasty as 'Ethiopian', which was the Hellenistic understanding of Nubia, and gives it three kings, Sabacon, Sebichos, and Tarcus (Shabaka, Shebitku, and Taharqa). He ignores Piye, and probably gets Shabaka and Shebitku in the wrong order (though the latter was commonly believed until very recently), but he obviously didn't ignore them.

So I'm not sure what Insaanistan is referring to.

Yeah the Romans and the Greeks had this weird thing where when they saw a black person, they said he was Ethiopian. Reminds me of that episode of King of the Hill when Hank asks Khan, their new Laotian neighbor, "so are ya Japanese or Chinese?"

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just to mess with everyone out there I’m going to create a new movie. In this movie every single white part will be cast to a black person, every single Asian character is going to be a Latino actor all of the Hispanic parts are going to have white actors, all of the black parts will have Asian actors. It’s going to be a really epic movie.

Honestly though. It’s like all society can care about is race. Everything is about race. Seriously we live in a racially driven culture, we are probably more racist now without realizing it than at many (I am not saying ALL) other parts of history. I mean where are these neo-Nazis coming from?

More racist than most of history, not necessarily more xenophobic. For much of history people weren't fond of foreigners but back in ancient times people didn't create skin color categories and rank them from inferior to superior like in the modern era.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

What does Caesar himself write about her, actually?

Well, for one, there is this historic record:

Damn Caesar really went and called Egypt a bunch of has-beens right to the Queen's face.