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by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:23 pm
by Destyntine » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 pm
Geneviev wrote:Destyntine wrote:
I agree with this. If people do not want to get vaccinated then that is on them. It is their own life on the line. Parents do deserve authority over their children and should get them vaccinated, although I'm neutral towards children because of the lack of infection among anyone under 18. I honestly believe we should prioritize the elderly due to the high risk factor.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer or a pro-vaxxer, I just honestly believe people should have their own civil rights to refuse a vaccine even if science proves their information to be incorrect.
I believe this thread is about all vaccines.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:40 pm
Destyntine wrote:Geneviev wrote:I believe this thread is about all vaccines.
I was trying to use covid as an example, I'm not the best at wording things. But yes, I stand neutral on vaccines, I believe they should be optional for everyone even if they are proven to save lives, kind of like a seat belt.
by Daves Computer » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:27 am
by Destyntine » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:21 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Destyntine wrote:
I was trying to use covid as an example, I'm not the best at wording things. But yes, I stand neutral on vaccines, I believe they should be optional for everyone even if they are proven to save lives, kind of like a seat belt.
Like a seat belt, only in that seat belts save a few lives outside the car. Vaccines are better at protecting everyone, and aren't actually that effective for a single person in a herd of unvaccinated people.
by Picairn » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:23 am
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:29 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:56 am
Destyntine wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Like a seat belt, only in that seat belts save a few lives outside the car. Vaccines are better at protecting everyone, and aren't actually that effective for a single person in a herd of unvaccinated people.
But is it worth sacrificing civil rights to save a few people who refuse a vaccination? Personally I don't think so.
I believe people have to make their own decisions, even if it means they are risking their own lives.
Of course research should be out there publicly and the government should urge people to get vaccinated, but forcing them would be another story. I could imagine anti-vaxxers and conspiracists avoiding doctors all-together if vaccinations became mandatory.
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:03 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:If that's not enough, we need to start interviewing the refusers and finding out what their real reason is. See if offering money softens them up. But if we still can't get a high enough rate of vaccinations, people without a really good reason get told to accept the shot or if they won't, they get held down by a few big security guards and get the shot whether they like it or not.
If they're just cautious and want most other people vaccinated first, that's OK. If there are few enough of them, they might never get asked to accept vaccination, again. But if there are too many of them they have to be treated as criminals.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:25 am
Purpelia wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:If that's not enough, we need to start interviewing the refusers and finding out what their real reason is. See if offering money softens them up. But if we still can't get a high enough rate of vaccinations, people without a really good reason get told to accept the shot or if they won't, they get held down by a few big security guards and get the shot whether they like it or not.
If they're just cautious and want most other people vaccinated first, that's OK. If there are few enough of them, they might never get asked to accept vaccination, again. But if there are too many of them they have to be treated as criminals.
If you go about bribing antivaxers to get their shots than what does that make the rest of us that do it voluntarily? Idiots? What motivations do we have than to not just collectively refuse until we get a check in the mail?
I for one would not want my tax money going toward bribing people who willfully endanger me to be nice and not do it.
Imagine if we did that with every other crime. If we gave out money to thieves and murderers and drug dealers to bribe them to not do their thing.
by Freiheit Reich » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:38 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:43 am
Freiheit Reich wrote:No. They can be encouraged and offered for free but to make them mandatory is excessive government control. Do people want the government to have so much control over your body? I can't believe so many people support totalitarianism, but I shouldn't be surprised by now. After all, people also loved Stalin and Mao and now many love Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-un.
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:43 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:OK, give everyone money when they get vaccinated, not just the ones who refuse first time. No vax, no money.
Freiheit Reich wrote:"Give me liberty, or give me death!"
by Cereskia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:45 am
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by Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:46 am
Purpelia wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:OK, give everyone money when they get vaccinated, not just the ones who refuse first time. No vax, no money.
And where does that money come from? The budget. Where does that come from? Taxes. Congratulations, you just invented a way for the government to take my money, pass it through their bureaucracy and give what is left (as all systems are inherently inefficient) back to me.
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:46 am
Cereskia wrote:Yes For Mandatory Vaccinations!
(Although im a bit scared of needles)
fucc thos antivaxxers
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:49 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Purpelia wrote:And where does that money come from? The budget. Where does that come from? Taxes. Congratulations, you just invented a way for the government to take my money, pass it through their bureaucracy and give what is left (as all systems are inherently inefficient) back to me.
If you don't like it, you don't have to take the money.
But we'll still be taking your taxes, and spending them on police and courts and prisons, the way you like.
I get my massive spending program which does nothing but make people happy.
You get your massive spending program, which only makes people miserable.
I'm happy with that compromise if you are!
by Honeydewistania » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:50 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:52 am
Honeydewistania wrote:Mandatory free vaccines but priority should be given to developing countries/Low income people (unless there’s quality universal healthcare)
by Resilient Acceleration » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:05 am
Purpelia wrote:Honeydewistania wrote:Mandatory free vaccines but priority should be given to developing countries/Low income people (unless there’s quality universal healthcare)
Why? Can't we just do the sensible thing and let them fend for them self. And if an outbreak happens just quarantine the whole country (cut off travel) and leave them to it.
2033.12.21
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by The Blaatschapen » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:08 am
by Free Las Pinas » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:11 am
Estanglia wrote:One of the most disgusting things about the "vaccines cause autism, therefore I'm not vaccinating" argument is that it acts like dying a preventable death is a better alternative to autism. That's a disgusting view to hold.
Purpelia wrote:Why? Can't we just do the sensible thing and let them fend for them self. And if an outbreak happens just quarantine the whole country (cut off travel) and leave them to it.
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:29 am
The Blaatschapen wrote:The idea that the government only makes money through taxes is a laughable one.
For years the Dutch government made money by selling gas. Of course, the initial investment to pump the gas was done by taxes, but it is/was basically a government owned company. And rather than some private investors, the shareholder is the government, and the revenue went to the government rather than the private investor.
Free Las Pinas wrote:As someone who lives in a third world country, I don’t think it should be that easy to say. Healthcare is crap here.
Resilient Acceleration wrote:The "priority" clause might be unnecessary, I agree. But the bigger the outbreak, the exponentially bigger the chances it spreads to your pristine developed countries. Ebola for example is a sweeping success story when we consider the far worse possibilities.
Also "let them fend for them self" is kinda hard to do when healthcare infrastructure is poor to nonexistent, health human resources is scarce, etc.
by Freiheit Reich » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:56 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Freiheit Reich wrote:No. They can be encouraged and offered for free but to make them mandatory is excessive government control. Do people want the government to have so much control over your body? I can't believe so many people support totalitarianism, but I shouldn't be surprised by now. After all, people also loved Stalin and Mao and now many love Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-un.
Your right to be infected with a deadly disease ends at your front door. What right do you have to share public spaces with other people, if you refuse the basic hygiene necessary to be sure you're not spreading disease. You don't. Stay on your own property if you want to live by your own rules!
by Purpelia » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:59 am
Freiheit Reich wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Your right to be infected with a deadly disease ends at your front door. What right do you have to share public spaces with other people, if you refuse the basic hygiene necessary to be sure you're not spreading disease. You don't. Stay on your own property if you want to live by your own rules!
Drivers kill pedestrians. Should cars be banned? Air pollution from factories kills plenty of non-factory workers, should factories be banned? If you are scared of getting the disease, you can avoid crowded places.
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