MAGAThread XX: A Journal of the Plague Year

[Des-Bal]

You're right, the government was certainly not doing enough to investigate election fraud. If they were, Trump and his whole team, the people attempting election fraud, would all be in trouble right now.

This is ridiculous, I hear people going "this guy voted in Pennsylvania but he was dead!" and "this ballot in Georgia didn't have a date on it."

You know what real election fraud looks like? You let a pandemic spin out of control which makes in person voting unsafe, then when mail in ballots are implemented as a necessary measure, you order all the sorting machines to be removed from the post office to make sure that mail delivery slows to a crawl so that the ballots will come late so that you can later go to court and say they shouldn't count.

The 2020 election was the biggest fraud attempt in US history, it just didn't work.

I thought the part when I said I was being pointlessly and irrationally partisan as a form of comfort made it clear but those are not my opinions, they're the mirror to the post they responded to.

[Celritannia]

You're right, the government was certainly not doing enough to investigate election fraud. If they were, Trump and his whole team, the people attempting election fraud, would all be in trouble right now.

This is ridiculous, I hear people going "this guy voted in Pennsylvania but he was dead!" and "this ballot in Georgia didn't have a date on it."

You know what real election fraud looks like? You let a pandemic spin out of control which makes in person voting unsafe, then when mail in ballots are implemented as a necessary measure, you order all the sorting machines to be removed from the post office to make sure that mail delivery slows to a crawl so that the ballots will come late so that you can later go to court and say they shouldn't count.

The 2020 election was the biggest fraud attempt in US history, it just didn't work.

I thought the part when I said I was being pointlessly and irrationally partisan as a form of comfort made it clear but those are not my opinions, they're the mirror to the post they responded to.

How are actions of police brutality and deaths anywhere similar to the lies of an election fraud being believed?

[Galloism]

Yes the police did step back from the sedition, likely to try to avoid bloodshed, and you saw the DC police do the same when the seditious actors in DC the other day breached the capitol.

Our institutions have utterly failed us, repeatedly, which is another proximate cause for how we got here.

And keep in mind, these people in DC feel the government ignored their continuous plea to end the farce of election fraud (that never happened). They believe their cause is just, just like the CHAZ actors. They believe their rights have been violated and the government is abjectly refusing to act.

You are more alike than you realize.

It was still sedition to prevent by force the application of the law, and seize government rights and property interests to setup your own autonomous zone independent from the USA, enforcing such with semi automatic weapons (I know you thought that was important), going so far as to create national border checkpoints and declare people are leaving the USA by entering.

Compared to, let's say, the Lafayette incident? Or the BLM DC Protests where National Guard members were stationed in the Capital?
They could have planned for this much better if they did the same thing with the BLM DC protests, but they didn't. It would have stopped them storming Capitol Hill.

And their feelings of an election fraud is equal to the injustice of killing unarmed black people? False equivalence right there.

Despite the fact there was no evidence of election fraud, they still believed it. So no, you cannot equate the 2.

Yeah, they were not really leaving the US though, so that's fucking stupid.

They feel so yes. Remember Biden is a lizard man Illuminati who’s going to kill millions or whatever. And it’s about actions. You’re once again distracting yourself in the perceived ethical justification of the seditious act, rather than engaging that the act was seditious itself.

Everyone feels they are justified in their seditious acts.

The fact that the people acting out sedition and declaring open secession are stupid notwithstanding, it doesn’t change the nature of the act. The seditious asshats in DC are stupid too - one of them was dressed as a Buffalo for Pete’s sake - but that doesn’t change the nature of the act.

And CHAZ was mostly peaceful. Occupational Protest.

I’ll let those dead kids parents know that the seditious attempt at secession that got their children killed at an illegal border checkpoint was mostly peaceful.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

You know you're all like both sides bad here but I'm like:
GRU is sitting there in Moscow, stroking their beards and going "Comrades, imagine now what a Spetsgruppa could do in DC."

[Des-Bal]

How are actions of police brutality and deaths anywhere similar to the lies of an election fraud being believed?

How is the thing you care about and believe in similar to the thing you don't and don't?

[The Alma Mater]

I thought the part when I said I was being pointlessly and irrationally partisan as a form of comfort made it clear but those are not my opinions, they're the mirror to the post they responded to.

How are actions of police brutality and deaths anywhere similar to the lies of an election fraud being believed?

You realise that the people who stormed the Capitol probably do not believe police brutality is a real problem ?

[Celritannia]

Compared to, let's say, the Lafayette incident? Or the BLM DC Protests where National Guard members were stationed in the Capital?
They could have planned for this much better if they did the same thing with the BLM DC protests, but they didn't. It would have stopped them storming Capitol Hill.

And their feelings of an election fraud is equal to the injustice of killing unarmed black people? False equivalence right there.

Despite the fact there was no evidence of election fraud, they still believed it. So no, you cannot equate the 2.

Yeah, they were not really leaving the US though, so that's fucking stupid.

They feel so yes. Remember Biden is a lizard man Illuminati who’s going to kill millions or whatever. And it’s about actions. You’re once again distracting yourself in the perceived ethical justification of the seditious act, rather than engaging that the act was seditious itself.

Everyone feels they are justified in their seditious acts.

The fact that the people acting out sedition and declaring open secession are stupid notwithstanding, it doesn’t change the nature of the act. The seditious asshats in DC are stupid too - one of them was dressed as a Buffalo for Pete’s sake - but that doesn’t change the nature of the act.

And CHAZ was mostly peaceful. Occupational Protest.

I’ll let those dead kids parents know that the seditious attempt at secession that got their children killed at an illegal border checkpoint was mostly peaceful.

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

I condemn the murder of those teenagers.
But you are trying to suggest CHAZ was attempting to leave the Union which was not the intention in the slightest.

[Celritannia]

How are actions of police brutality and deaths anywhere similar to the lies of an election fraud being believed?

How is the thing you care about and believe in similar to the thing you don't and don't?

One is based in facts and logic, the other is not.

[Des-Bal]

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

I don't understand how you think you're disagreeing, you're saying it's they believe different things and that is why they are bad.

[Celritannia]

How are actions of police brutality and deaths anywhere similar to the lies of an election fraud being believed?

You realise that the people who stormed the Capitol probably do not believe police brutality is a real problem ?

I know, which is why it was horrific to hear one of the seditionists say:

“This is not America,” a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. “They’re shooting at us. They’re supposed to shoot BLM, but they’re shooting the patriots.”

[Des-Bal]

One is based in facts and logic, the other is not.

Again, so you're conceding that the difference is what they believe but maintaining that you're right.

[Celritannia]

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

I don't understand how you think you're disagreeing, you're saying it's they believe different things and that is why they are bad.

I don't understand how you can sit there and support idiots believing in a lie compared to people being killed by police.

[Galloism]

They feel so yes. Remember Biden is a lizard man Illuminati who’s going to kill millions or whatever. And it’s about actions. You’re once again distracting yourself in the perceived ethical justification of the seditious act, rather than engaging that the act was seditious itself.

Everyone feels they are justified in their seditious acts.

The fact that the people acting out sedition and declaring open secession are stupid notwithstanding, it doesn’t change the nature of the act. The seditious asshats in DC are stupid too - one of them was dressed as a Buffalo for Pete’s sake - but that doesn’t change the nature of the act.



I’ll let those dead kids parents know that the seditious attempt at secession that got their children killed at an illegal border checkpoint was mostly peaceful.

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

They aren’t the same exactly, but they are part of an escalating pattern of political violence, sedition, and complete rejection - by force - of the workings of the legitimate state authority, towards forcing a certain political end.

I condemn the murder of those teenagers.
But you are trying to suggest CHAZ was attempting to leave the Union which was not the intention in the slightest.

It was more along the line that they were using force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.

They also declared, by signage, their intend to be independent of federal authority, and acted in concert with this declaration via use of force.

Or you know, sedition.

This sedition then led to the murder of children.

[Celritannia]

One is based in facts and logic, the other is not.

Again, so you're conceding that the difference is what they believe but maintaining that you're right.

Considering there is actual evidence of police brutality, and there is no evidence of voter fraud.

This is not something you can be so easily impartial about.

[Des-Bal]

I don't understand how you can sit there and support idiots believing in a lie compared to people being killed by police.

I don't support them.

My point is that someone could walk up and say you're comparing an attempt to save democracy to a nationwide campaign of destruction over criminals getting themselves killed.

[Valrifell]

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

I don't understand how you think you're disagreeing, you're saying it's they believe different things and that is why they are bad.

Disagreeing with the justifications of (for the sake of argument) similar actions does not make you morally inconsistent.

In a similar way that saying "murder is bad" is consistent with saying "murder in the name of self defense is fine" in this example the consequences are the same but the justification behind the act is different and one is condemned and the other is accepted. No incongruity here.

[Celritannia]

It's there own stupid fault for believing a lie, and using Trump's words to storm the Capitol building.
BLM protests were done so out of years of neglect and brutality of police officers, erupting into one action of pure malicious violence of a man under there arrest.

It is stupid to even think the 2 are the same.

They aren’t the same exactly, but they are part of an escalating pattern of political violence, sedition, and complete rejection - by force - of the workings of the legitimate state authority, towards forcing a certain political end.

I condemn the murder of those teenagers.
But you are trying to suggest CHAZ was attempting to leave the Union which was not the intention in the slightest.

It was more along the line that they were using force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.

They also declared, by signage, their intend to be independent of federal authority, and acted in concert with this declaration via use of force.

Or you know, sedition.

One was attempting to stop the actual functioning of government, while the other wants to implement change on police brutality.

And there was also internal strife within CHAZ so there was no direct cohesion. This led to the overall problems and power struggles internally.

[Celritannia]

I don't understand how you can sit there and support idiots believing in a lie compared to people being killed by police.

I don't support them.

My point is that someone could walk up and say you're comparing an attempt to save democracy to a nationwide campaign of destruction over criminals getting themselves killed.

And I would ask where the evidence of this is to suggest they are saving democracy, and from who.

Despite the fact that a number of police shootings and brutality are against innocent people?

[The Alma Mater]

I don't support them.

My point is that someone could walk up and say you're comparing an attempt to save democracy to a nationwide campaign of destruction over criminals getting themselves killed.

And I would ask where the evidence of this is to suggest they are saving democracy, and from who.

And they would answer that there is so much evidence you have to be blind not to see it and refuse to take you seriously when you claim they are sprouting bullshit.

You really need to understand that Trumpism is a religion. His followers BELIEVE. They are not acting or pretending - they believe with all their hearts that Trump is all that stands between them and unfathomable evil.

[Galloism]

They aren’t the same exactly, but they are part of an escalating pattern of political violence, sedition, and complete rejection - by force - of the workings of the legitimate state authority, towards forcing a certain political end.



It was more along the line that they were using force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.

They also declared, by signage, their intend to be independent of federal authority, and acted in concert with this declaration via use of force.

Or you know, sedition.

One was attempting to stop the actual functioning of government, while the other wants to implement change on police brutality.

This is just saying “when they were being seditious, they had a good cause!” It doesn’t change it was an act of sedition.

When the representatives in what later became the United States gathered in the late 1700s to discuss the British problem, they were engaged in an act of sedition. Most people (here anyway) generally believe they had good cause, but it was still seditious.

And there was also internal strife within CHAZ so there was no direct cohesion. This led to the overall problems and power struggles internally.

That often happens in seditious and secessionist movements. They are people who are good fighting against the established order - even their own - when it doesn’t go their way.

It’s one of the reasons most secession attempts fail.

[Valrifell]

And I would ask where the evidence of this is to suggest they are saving democracy, and from who.

And they would answer that there is so much evidence you have to be blind not to see it and refuse to take you seriously when you claim they are sprouting bullshit.

You really need to understand that Trumpism is a religion. His followers BELIEVE. They are not acting or pretending - they believe with all their hearts that Trump is all that stands between them and unfathomable evil.

Okay but who cares what they think?

[Des-Bal]

Disagreeing with the justifications of (for the sake of argument) similar actions does not make you morally inconsistent.

In a similar way that saying "murder is bad" is consistent with saying "murder in the name of self defense is fine" in this example the consequences are the same but the justification behind the act is different and one is condemned and the other is accepted. No incongruity here.

Self defense is a good example. If you shoot someone because you think they're about to shoot you it's self defense. The issue isnt what an observer thinks, it doesn't matter if they say "I don't think he'd have shot you" it matters if you thought he would. That is the justification, and in this case both sides feel justified. You're arguing about who would have actually shot who, but that doesn't change anything.

[Celritannia]

And I would ask where the evidence of this is to suggest they are saving democracy, and from who.

And they would answer that there is so much evidence you have to be blind not to see it and refuse to take you seriously when you claim they are sprouting bullshit.

You really need to understand that Trumpism is a religion. His followers BELIEVE. They are not acting or pretending - they believe with all their hearts that Trump is all that stands between them and unfathomable evil.

And it is a danger, and why it cannot be equated to the BLM protests.

[Des-Bal]

[

And I would ask where the evidence of this is to suggest they are saving democracy, and from who.

Despite the fact that a number of police shootings and brutality are against innocent people?

And I would chide you for missing the fucking point.

They often aren't.

[Celritannia]

One was attempting to stop the actual functioning of government, while the other wants to implement change on police brutality.

This is just saying “when they were being seditious, they had a good cause!” It doesn’t change it was an act of sedition.

When the representatives in what later became the United States gathered in the late 1700s to discuss the British problem, they were engaged in an act of sedition. Most people (here anyway) generally believe they had good cause, but it was still seditious.

And there was also internal strife within CHAZ so there was no direct cohesion. This led to the overall problems and power struggles internally.

That often happens in seditious and secessionist movements. They are people who are good fighting against the established order - even their own - when it doesn’t go their way.

It’s one of the reasons most secession attempts fail.

And there were many in Parliament who supported the grievances of the Colonists and didn't see it as sedition.


And they were not attempting to secede anyway.