MAGAThread XX: A Journal of the Plague Year

[Ranoria]

Not perplexed. At all.

You didn't actually read the page I linked, did you? Or are you simply being contrary for the sake of being contrary?

Little bit of both.

No. The argument is that masks aren’t effective at slowing the spread of the flu. We’re not allowed to say masks don’t work with the COVID lol.

Someone pointed out that the flu and COVID are different, which would explain masks devastating the flu and not COVID. I pointed out that that’s the reason I’m not totally against masks.



Not perplexed. At all.



You’d think. I think a couple of the things I linked earlier actually explain thats not the case(they might not, but I came across some sources for that while I was getting ze links). It’s actually pretty interesting to follow the history of the surgical masks, if you’re a nerd like I am.

Edit: if you do go looking don’t worry about digging if you can’t find that, I don’t wanna waste your time lol. I’ll find a piece about it, it’s kinds tough these days though, because obvs if you type in “mask” it’s a bunch of COVID-19 stuff
Edit again: err, actually, this might be getting a bit off topic.

It might help if you actually read up on it. Your comments suggest you haven’t.

Masks are a legal topic for this thread as trump is so outspoken against them.

I've done plenty of my own digging. I can throw numbers at you just as long as you can do the same.

[The Black Forrest]

You didn't actually read the page I linked, did you? Or are you simply being contrary for the sake of being contrary?

Little bit of both.

It might help if you actually read up on it. Your comments suggest you haven’t.

Masks are a legal topic for this thread as trump is so outspoken against them.

I've done plenty of my own digging. I can throw numbers at you just as long as you can do the same.

Ok. Let’s see your source.

[Ranoria]

Little bit of both.


I've done plenty of my own digging. I can throw numbers at you just as long as you can do the same.

Ok. Let’s see your source.

‘Bout two posts up boss.

There isn't really a contradiction, since the flu and Covid aren't the same thing.

If Covid is significantly more infectious than the flu, you can get to the point where you have 95% fewer flu cases but Covid is still running rampant.

The flu being devastated by the current levels of mask-wearing doesn't mean enough people are wearing masks to deal with Covid.

I would argue that it is. I'm aware that they're different diseases. The ineffectiveness of mask-wearing on stopping the flu is why I'm not a fan myself.

Funnily enough, that's (the flu and COVID being different) the only reason I don't completely lash out against masks, because there's plenty of evidence to show that they don't help stop the spread of influenza. Cloth masks make it worse, surgical masks don't help or hurt enough to be able to make a decisive statement on the matter, but it's marginal either way. I think N95 masks are pretty effective "It" referring to the flu.

And have you been in public? Everyone has a mask on. I'd put the number of people wearing them up around 98%, and that's counting myself not wearing one.

That being said, they spread pretty much the same way, through the air. But I'm going to stick with the flu below. To be clear again, everything below here is regarding the flu, not the 'rona.

[spoiler]Cloth masks don't do jack.

Surgical masks didn’t stop the spread of flu and other respiratory illnesses during a five-week study involving 1,936 health-care workers at 24 hospitals in Beijing last winter. Thicker versions designed to better fit the face, called N95 masks and made by 3M Co., reduced flu by 75 percent.

“It would not be ethical to recommend surgical masks for health-care workers,” MacIntyre said in an interview prior to her presentation. “They have significant leakage around the face. The findings fit everything we know from the experimental data about the poor quality of filtration, the poor fit.”

https://www.massnurses.org/health-and-s ... nItem/3201

[/spoiler]

^point being, masks don’t do much for the flu, now, as Jerzy pointed out, that’s probably been impacted a lot by constant sanitizing of surfaces, which explains why the flu has dropped so much.

Now, Farn linked an article with a few pointers as to some evidence for masks stopping the spread of COVID. I would point to the fact that while those are great and all, a true experiment requires eliminating all possible variables, narrowing it down to your dependent and independent, and then having a control group to compare and experimental groups after that. The only test of this nature, that I’m aware of, was done with hamsters.

The team placed hamsters that were artificially infected with the disease next to healthy animals. Surgical masks (level 1) were placed between the two cages with air flow travelling from the infected animals to the healthy ones.

*there is a freaking adorable picture of a hamster with a miniature mask at the end though. It will brighten your day.
*Edit- forgot to give the link to that, but here ya go https://www.understandinganimalresearch ... -hamsters/
And I gotta say, if that’s what we’re going off of, no. In the spoiler you’ll find a couple experiments with control and experimental groups regarding influenza. I did see a bit of stuff claiming to be such experiments in farn’s post. I’d like to see something that isolates lockdowns and such as well though. Again, eliminate as many factors as possible, especially big ones like a lockdown.

[Rusozak]

Anyone see Jordan Klepper's piece at the "million" MAGA march? It was just... jesus, I think calling it a circus would be an insult to the circus. Never have I seen so many defaced US flags or hate-filled conspiracy theorists.

[Jerzylvania]

*there is a freaking adorable picture of a hamster with a miniature mask at the end though. It will brighten your day.
*Edit- forgot to give the link to that, but here ya go https://www.understandinganimalresearch ... -hamsters/
And I gotta say, if that’s what we’re going off of, no. In the spoiler you’ll find a couple experiments with control and experimental groups regarding influenza. I did see a bit of stuff claiming to be such experiments in farn’s post. I’d like to see something that isolates lockdowns and such as well though. Again, eliminate as many factors as possible, especially big ones like a lockdown.

That's a chinchilla stand-in for a hamster. They're bigger and easier to photo with a mask.

[Nakena]

Anyone see Jordan Klepper's piece at the "million" MAGA march? It was just... jesus, I think calling it a circus would be an insult to the circus. Never have I seen so many defaced US flags or hate-filled conspiracy theorists.

link plox

[Gravlen]

Anyone see Jordan Klepper's piece at the "million" MAGA march? It was just... jesus, I think calling it a circus would be an insult to the circus. Never have I seen so many defaced US flags or hate-filled conspiracy theorists.

link plox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLpbO5S4xE

[Ranoria]

*there is a freaking adorable picture of a hamster with a miniature mask at the end though. It will brighten your day.
*Edit- forgot to give the link to that, but here ya go https://www.understandinganimalresearch ... -hamsters/
And I gotta say, if that’s what we’re going off of, no. In the spoiler you’ll find a couple experiments with control and experimental groups regarding influenza. I did see a bit of stuff claiming to be such experiments in farn’s post. I’d like to see something that isolates lockdowns and such as well though. Again, eliminate as many factors as possible, especially big ones like a lockdown.

That's a chinchilla stand-in for a hamster. They're bigger and easier to photo with a mask.

Good to know. Absolutely adorable and it made me happy lol.

[Kowani]

Trump set to pull nearly all troops from Somalia

[Senkaku]

Trump set to pull nearly all troops from Somalia

Between this and Afghanistan it seems like they're hoping shit will boil over somewhere once Biden is in office by pulling a bunch of troops out really fast? Or maybe Trump has suddenly gotten in touch with his "ideals" and deeply held non-interventionist lol who knows

[Kowani]

Trump set to pull nearly all troops from Somalia

Between this and Afghanistan it seems like they're hoping shit will boil over somewhere once Biden is in office by pulling a bunch of troops out really fast? Or maybe Trump has suddenly gotten in touch with his "ideals" and deeply held non-interventionist lol who knows

The former.

[Rusozak]

Trump set to pull nearly all troops from Somalia

Between this and Afghanistan it seems like they're hoping shit will boil over somewhere once Biden is in office by pulling a bunch of troops out really fast? Or maybe Trump has suddenly gotten in touch with his "ideals" and deeply held non-interventionist lol who knows

He's probably hoping the extremists will take over where we've been fighting for Biden to take care of. So we'll have another radicalized rogue state committing human rights violations or another 9/11. LiBs OwNeD.

[Farnhamia]

Between this and Afghanistan it seems like they're hoping shit will boil over somewhere once Biden is in office by pulling a bunch of troops out really fast? Or maybe Trump has suddenly gotten in touch with his "ideals" and deeply held non-interventionist lol who knows

He's probably hoping the extremists will take over where we've been fighting for Biden to take care of. So we'll have another radicalized rogue state committing human rights violations or another 9/11. LiBs OwNeD.

And then our nation will turn its lonely eyes to The Donald and cry out for his help. Remember, only he can fix it.

[Ranoria]

He's probably hoping the extremists will take over where we've been fighting for Biden to take care of. So we'll have another radicalized rogue state committing human rights violations or another 9/11. LiBs OwNeD.

And then our nation will turn its lonely eyes to The Donald and cry out for his help. Remember, only he can fix it.

Hm. Well I was gonna say given that we’re energy independent now it’s probably best to gtfo of the Middle East. But Biden doesn’t like fracking, so I could potentially see that as sabotaging the next admin. Hope not.

Trump did bring a ton of the troops home once we smashed ISIS though, didn’t he?

[The Black Forrest]

‘Bout two posts up boss.

Thanks and err? Did you read that study? It was a measurement for medical personal with constant direct contact with covid.

Yes a cloth mask is not a good idea in that environment.

That doesn’t dismiss what they are saying about the populace in a general environment.

[The Black Forrest]

And then our nation will turn its lonely eyes to The Donald and cry out for his help. Remember, only he can fix it.

Hm. Well I was gonna say given that we’re energy independent now it’s probably best to gtfo of the Middle East. But Biden doesn’t like fracking, so I could potentially see that as sabotaging the next admin. Hope not.

Trump did bring a ton of the troops home once we smashed ISIS though, didn’t he?

Well....yes....the problem?

ISIS wasn’t eliminated. They are rebuilding. They got a big boost when he betrayed the kurds and the Turks attacked.

[Farnhamia]

Hm. Well I was gonna say given that we’re energy independent now it’s probably best to gtfo of the Middle East. But Biden doesn’t like fracking, so I could potentially see that as sabotaging the next admin. Hope not.

Trump did bring a ton of the troops home once we smashed ISIS though, didn’t he?

Well....yes....the problem?

ISIS wasn’t eliminated. They are rebuilding. They got a big boost when he betrayed the kurds and the Turks attacked.

Premature ... withdrawal?

[Rusozak]

Hm. Well I was gonna say given that we’re energy independent now it’s probably best to gtfo of the Middle East. But Biden doesn’t like fracking, so I could potentially see that as sabotaging the next admin. Hope not.

Trump did bring a ton of the troops home once we smashed ISIS though, didn’t he?

Well....yes....the problem?

ISIS wasn’t eliminated. They are rebuilding. They got a big boost when he betrayed the kurds and the Turks attacked.

It's like stopping an antibiotics treatment before the infection is cured. ISIS is probably going to come back bigger and stronger if we just ditch our allies high and dry. The man is playing with the fates of nations all to satisfy a personal vendetta.

[The Black Forrest]

Well....yes....the problem?

ISIS wasn’t eliminated. They are rebuilding. They got a big boost when he betrayed the kurds and the Turks attacked.

Premature ... withdrawal?

. Naughty girl!

[Ranoria]

Hm. Well I was gonna say given that we’re energy independent now it’s probably best to gtfo of the Middle East. But Biden doesn’t like fracking, so I could potentially see that as sabotaging the next admin. Hope not.

Trump did bring a ton of the troops home once we smashed ISIS though, didn’t he?

Well....yes....the problem?

ISIS wasn’t eliminated. They are rebuilding. They got a big boost when he betrayed the kurds and the Turks attacked.

I'm very much opposed to getting rid of fracking. If Trump really has gone off the deep end (ik, I'm gonna get the "That was years ago" comments), and is trying to sabotage Biden, that's bad.

I wasn't aware of that with ISIS. Haven't heard about them since early in his presidency. Maybe he didn't crush the whole movement but I don't like the idea of leaving troops in the middle east if there isn't a clear and present threat. Not our country, not our job to install whatever government, not our place to govern the citizens of other countries, and I'd always prefer to avoid casualties and crippling injuries, American or otherwise, imo. My point with the energy independence is that it helps eliminate one more reason for us to be there.

[Kowani]

My point with the energy independence is that it helps eliminate one more reason for us to be there.

No. We don't go in to extract oil.
It's about controlling supply and price.

for the first 7 smart guys who come in with the "well akshually" I know it's more complicated than that

[Ranoria]

My point with the energy independence is that it helps eliminate one more reason for us to be there.

No. We don't go in to extract oil.
It's about controlling supply and price.

for the first 7 smart guys who come in with the "well akshually" I know it's more complicated than that

Whiiich we don't need to worry about if we're energy dependent, right?*

*caveat that my understanding of economics is limited at best.

[Senkaku]

I'm very much opposed to getting rid of fracking.

Me too. Well, not fracking for natural gas, but I'm fine with moving all our fancy drilling equipment and the people employed operating it over to the development of new geothermal power systems. Much less environmentally damaging.

I'm guessing you meant the other kind, though. What exactly do you find desirable about fracking for natural gas extraction?

If Trump really has gone off the deep end (ik, I'm gonna get the "That was years ago" comments), and is trying to sabotage Biden, that's bad.

There are administration officials literally saying it, so not sure what's uncertain for you here.

My point with the energy independence is that it helps eliminate one more reason for us to be there.

The notion that fossil fuels are the only or best path to energy independence is laughable.

[Kowani]

No. We don't go in to extract oil.
It's about controlling supply and price.

for the first 7 smart guys who come in with the "well akshually" I know it's more complicated than that

Whiiich we don't need to worry about if we're energy dependent, right?*

*caveat that my understanding of economics is limited at best.

We do.
See, we're "energy independent" not because we don't import oil. (We imported about 9.1 million barrels per day just last year.) "Energy independence" just means we export more than we import.

Hence, we still have to worry about the price.

[Ranoria]

Whiiich we don't need to worry about if we're energy dependent, right?*

*caveat that my understanding of economics is limited at best.

We do.
See, we're "energy independent" not because we don't import oil. (We imported about 9.1 million barrels per day just last year.) "Energy independence" just means we export more than we import.

Hence, we still have to worry about the price.

I am aware of that last bit, that we still import. But we aren't totally dependent on the world market now as far as I'm aware. Like I said, I know I don't totally understand the ramifications, but at face value to me, it means gtfo of other countries.

I'm very much opposed to getting rid of fracking.

Me too. Well, not fracking for natural gas, but I'm fine with moving all our fancy drilling equipment and the people employed operating it over to the development of new geothermal power systems. Much less environmentally damaging.

I'm guessing you meant the other kind, though. What exactly do you find desirable about fracking for natural gas extraction?

If Trump really has gone off the deep end (ik, I'm gonna get the "That was years ago" comments), and is trying to sabotage Biden, that's bad.

There are administration officials literally saying it, so not sure what's uncertain for you here.

My point with the energy independence is that it helps eliminate one more reason for us to be there.

The notion that fossil fuels are the only or best path to energy independence is laughable.

If you're referring green energy, we're not there yet, and that's all there is to it. Wind is obscenely expensive at the moment, solar just isn't quite where it needs to be. Now, I totally support the subsidizing of the private industry's development of green energy sources, but right now, yes, fracking seems to be the best move.