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MAGAThread XX: A Journal of the Plague Year

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Esalia
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esalia » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:45 am

Ranoria wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Masks prevent me from spreading corona to you. Masks prevent both of us from catching the flu from random other people. Did you get a flu shot yet? You should.

Always get my flu shot, yup.

Neanderthaland wrote:if - hypothetically - 50% of people wear masks, that's like 49.8% more masks than normal. So, if masks are effective at all, the flu will be down from it's normal numbers.

But 50% (or whatever the actual number is) will not be effective enough to completely stop coronavirus, just as it is not enough to completely stop the flu.

This is really obvious when you think about it.

Flu is down 95%. I'm not so much trying to push the "a ton of COVID cases are the flu" (because while possible that seems dumb) as I am pointing out the contradiction.


There isn't really a contradiction, since the flu and Covid aren't the same thing.

If Covid is significantly more infectious than the flu, you can get to the point where you have 95% fewer flu cases but Covid is still running rampant.

The flu being devastated by the current levels of mask-wearing doesn't mean enough people are wearing masks to deal with Covid.
Formerly Estanglia. Leftie ready to establish Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space CommunismTM under our Marxist Lord Soros.

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Albrenia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:36 am

Also, increased hand-washing, awareness of not touching one's face all the time when in public and social distancing all help fend off other illnesses.

It would be really nice if the Flu season in the US didn't cause the upswing in deaths that was originally expected though, if the Flu is a less severe one for whatever reason this season.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:07 am

Albrenia wrote:Also, increased hand-washing, awareness of not touching one's face all the time when in public and social distancing all help fend off other illnesses.

It would be really nice if the Flu season in the US didn't cause the upswing in deaths that was originally expected though, if the Flu is a less severe one for whatever reason this season.


The Flu gang have a nice little business, even with vaccines against them. This damn Covid gang is drawing so much heat though, Flu thinks its a good time to keep a low profile. A virus still has to infect of course, keep up the numbers and evolve some new strains, but this is not the time for an epidemic. "Elimination" must be avoided at all costs!
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Loben III
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Ex-Nation

Postby Loben III » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:39 am

Abandon your jobs
Abandon your posts
Abandon your homes
Abandon all hope

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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:42 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
There is still job security? :blink:

Job security is a myth boomers made up.

Job security are the people who escort you out of your job.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Posts: 20161
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:43 am

Loben III wrote:https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/afghanistan-iraq-withdrawal-pentagon/index.html
Hey that’s pretty neat.

Yeah, that's pretty good!

But it's kind of akin to fighting your way through a Dungeons and Dragons session of orcs and dragons just to find a treasure room at the end, with nothing but a wooden chest in the middle of it and strange carvings on the wall. Sure, I want to open the chest, and I am happy with loot, but there is no way that this was it.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:14 am

Ifreann wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Job security is a myth boomers made up.

Job security are the people who escort you out of your job.


:clap:
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:18 am

Loben III wrote:https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/afghanistan-iraq-withdrawal-pentagon/index.html
Hey that’s pretty neat.


He could do it today. But he chooses to do it 5 days before Inauguration Day. So Biden will take the blame for any consequences.

What a lovely man he is ...
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Ranoria
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ranoria » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:04 am

Esalia wrote:
Ranoria wrote:Always get my flu shot, yup.


Flu is down 95%. I'm not so much trying to push the "a ton of COVID cases are the flu" (because while possible that seems dumb) as I am pointing out the contradiction.


There isn't really a contradiction, since the flu and Covid aren't the same thing.

If Covid is significantly more infectious than the flu, you can get to the point where you have 95% fewer flu cases but Covid is still running rampant.

The flu being devastated by the current levels of mask-wearing doesn't mean enough people are wearing masks to deal with Covid.

I would argue that it is. I'm aware that they're different diseases. The ineffectiveness of mask-wearing on stopping the flu is why I'm not a fan myself.

Funnily enough, that's (the flu and COVID being different) the only reason I don't completely lash out against masks, because there's plenty of evidence to show that they don't help stop the spread of influenza. Cloth masks make it worse, surgical masks don't help or hurt enough to be able to make a decisive statement on the matter, but it's marginal either way. I think N95 masks are pretty effective "It" referring to the flu.

And have you been in public? Everyone has a mask on. I'd put the number of people wearing them up around 98%, and that's counting myself not wearing one.

That being said, they spread pretty much the same way, through the air. But I'm going to stick with the flu below. To be clear again, everything below here is regarding the flu, not the 'rona.



Surgical masks didn’t stop the spread of flu and other respiratory illnesses during a five-week study involving 1,936 health-care workers at 24 hospitals in Beijing last winter. Thicker versions designed to better fit the face, called N95 masks and made by 3M Co., reduced flu by 75 percent.


“It would not be ethical to recommend surgical masks for health-care workers,” MacIntyre said in an interview prior to her presentation. “They have significant leakage around the face. The findings fit everything we know from the experimental data about the poor quality of filtration, the poor fit.”


https://www.massnurses.org/health-and-s ... nItem/3201
Fan of football, the Murican kind. But soccer is cool too! Just not really my thing. C(:^D/-<
"Courage is knowing what not to fear." -Plato
I go by Ran. Unless, of course, you want to type out Ranoria. That's your decision.
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Esheaun Stroakuss
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:05 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:Job security is a myth boomers made up.


Boomers made a lot of shit up so that it only benefited them and screwed over everyone else.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:55 am

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Job security is a myth boomers made up.


Boomers made a lot of shit up so that it only benefited them and screwed over everyone else.


I knew WW2 was a fraud!
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:59 am

Esalia wrote:
Ranoria wrote:Always get my flu shot, yup.


Flu is down 95%. I'm not so much trying to push the "a ton of COVID cases are the flu" (because while possible that seems dumb) as I am pointing out the contradiction.


There isn't really a contradiction, since the flu and Covid aren't the same thing.

If Covid is significantly more infectious than the flu, you can get to the point where you have 95% fewer flu cases but Covid is still running rampant.

The flu being devastated by the current levels of mask-wearing doesn't mean enough people are wearing masks to deal with Covid.


It's not just the masks driving down flu cases. The effectiveness of wiping down surfaces with Lysol and other antiseptic cleansers make a difference, especially in schools.
Biden 2020 - Hope for America
Lamar Jackson measured in kinetic energy means.... touchdowns, touchdowns, touchdowns!
Trump's past the event horizon now. He's being stretched and torn wildly out of shape by the gravity of his misdeeds. Soon he'll be compacted into the cosmic trash can. Nevermore.

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Ranoria
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ranoria » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:17 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Esalia wrote:
There isn't really a contradiction, since the flu and Covid aren't the same thing.

If Covid is significantly more infectious than the flu, you can get to the point where you have 95% fewer flu cases but Covid is still running rampant.

The flu being devastated by the current levels of mask-wearing doesn't mean enough people are wearing masks to deal with Covid.


It's not just the masks driving down flu cases. The effectiveness of wiping down surfaces with Lysol and other antiseptic cleansers make a difference, especially in schools.

That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.
Fan of football, the Murican kind. But soccer is cool too! Just not really my thing. C(:^D/-<
"Courage is knowing what not to fear." -Plato
I go by Ran. Unless, of course, you want to type out Ranoria. That's your decision.
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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:22 am

Is the argument here that masks don't work because people are wearing masks and the spread of the flu is down?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:24 am

Ifreann wrote:Is the argument here that masks don't work because people are wearing masks and the spread of the flu is down?


That’s what I thought I read. It’s wiping down surfaces.....
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:29 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Is the argument here that masks don't work because people are wearing masks and the spread of the flu is down?


That’s what I thought I read. It’s wiping down surfaces.....

Everything we're doing to try to fight the spread of COVID is obviously also going to lower the spread of other diseases.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:30 am

Ranoria wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
It's not just the masks driving down flu cases. The effectiveness of wiping down surfaces with Lysol and other antiseptic cleansers make a difference, especially in schools.

That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.

A guide for the perplexed.
Wash Your Damned Hands!

Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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Autumn Wind
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Autumn Wind » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:39 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Loben III wrote:https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/afghanistan-iraq-withdrawal-pentagon/index.html
Hey that’s pretty neat.


He could do it today. But he chooses to do it 5 days before Inauguration Day. So Biden will take the blame for any consequences.

What a lovely man he is ...


Remember back in the day when having a timetable for troop withdrawals was a bad thing, and it should be determined by conditions on the ground, not time tables? I wonder what changed.
Your faith does not amuse me. Fundamentalism is a singularly unfunny disposition- A Rightist Puppet

In short, "fascist" is a modern word for "heretic," branding an individual worthy of excommunication from the body politic. The right uses otherwords ("reverse-racist," "feminazi," "unamerican," "communist") for similiar purposes, but these words have less elastic meanings. Fascism, however, is the gift that keeps on giving. - Jonah Goldberg, revisited.

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Kungsu
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Posts: 150
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kungsu » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:53 am

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Loben III wrote:https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/17/politics/afghanistan-iraq-withdrawal-pentagon/index.html
Hey that’s pretty neat.

Yeah, that's pretty good!

But it's kind of akin to fighting your way through a Dungeons and Dragons session of orcs and dragons just to find a treasure room at the end, with nothing but a wooden chest in the middle of it and strange carvings on the wall. Sure, I want to open the chest, and I am happy with loot, but there is no way that this was it.

I, for one, am not excited to fight the God of All Mimics.
Dharmists_Malays_Christians_Hakkas_Muslims_

Kungsu is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
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Jerzylvania
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Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:54 am

Ranoria wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
It's not just the masks driving down flu cases. The effectiveness of wiping down surfaces with Lysol and other antiseptic cleansers make a difference, especially in schools.

That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.


The efficacy of masks containing expelled droplets is unquestioned in the medical community.
Biden 2020 - Hope for America
Lamar Jackson measured in kinetic energy means.... touchdowns, touchdowns, touchdowns!
Trump's past the event horizon now. He's being stretched and torn wildly out of shape by the gravity of his misdeeds. Soon he'll be compacted into the cosmic trash can. Nevermore.

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Kungsu
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Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kungsu » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:03 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Ranoria wrote:That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.


The efficacy of masks containing expelled droplets is unquestioned in the medical community.

I mean, there is a reason hospital staff has been using them for decades now, and it's not because it makes them look cool.
Dharmists_Malays_Christians_Hakkas_Muslims_

Kungsu is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
Might be responsible for Zarzura
Does not use NSS

PRO: Moderation, Compromise, Choice, Democracy, Equality, Social Reform, Multiculturalism, Globalism, Spirituality, Welfare, Law Enforcement, Environment, Christ-like Love & Tolerance
ANTI: Extremism, Polarization, Communism, Corporatism, Laissez Faire, Obscene Wealth, Two-or-Less Party States, Zealotry, Blind Idealism, Authoritarianism, Moral/Religious Crusades, Immutable Tradition, Levitical Christians

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Ranoria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ranoria » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:28 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Is the argument here that masks don't work because people are wearing masks and the spread of the flu is down?


That’s what I thought I read. It’s wiping down surfaces.....

No. The argument is that masks aren’t effective at slowing the spread of the flu. We’re not allowed to say masks don’t work with the COVID lol.

Someone pointed out that the flu and COVID are different, which would explain masks devastating the flu and not COVID. I pointed out that that’s the reason I’m not totally against masks.


Farnhamia wrote:
Ranoria wrote:That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.

A guide for the perplexed.

Not perplexed. At all.

Jerzylvania wrote:
Ranoria wrote:That's totally fair. I'm big skeptical of the masks driving down COVID, this makes more sense though.


The efficacy of masks containing expelled droplets is unquestioned in the medical community.


You’d think. I think a couple of the things I linked earlier actually explain thats not the case(they might not, but I came across some sources for that while I was getting ze links). It’s actually pretty interesting to follow the history of the surgical masks, if you’re a nerd like I am.

Edit: if you do go looking don’t worry about digging if you can’t find that, I don’t wanna waste your time lol. I’ll find a piece about it, it’s kinds tough these days though, because obvs if you type in “mask” it’s a bunch of COVID-19 stuff
Edit again: err, actually, this might be getting a bit off topic.
Last edited by Ranoria on Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
Fan of football, the Murican kind. But soccer is cool too! Just not really my thing. C(:^D/-<
"Courage is knowing what not to fear." -Plato
I go by Ran. Unless, of course, you want to type out Ranoria. That's your decision.
Lumi is my NS mom
NSCF XX, XXII Champs

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Farnhamia
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Posts: 108998
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:58 am

Ranoria wrote:

Not perplexed. At all.

You didn't actually read the page I linked, did you? Or are you simply being contrary for the sake of being contrary?
Wash Your Damned Hands!

Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Eukaryotic Cells
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Posts: 1761
Founded: Aug 10, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Eukaryotic Cells » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:18 am

I think it's sort of common sense that masks would reduce spread. If the mask catches some of your spit and snot globs when you cough or sneeze, those globs aren't being breathed in by others.

It's obviously not the same as an N95, but we should save those for people who need them.

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The Black Forrest
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Posts: 44649
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:33 am

Ranoria wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
That’s what I thought I read. It’s wiping down surfaces.....

No. The argument is that masks aren’t effective at slowing the spread of the flu. We’re not allowed to say masks don’t work with the COVID lol.

Someone pointed out that the flu and COVID are different, which would explain masks devastating the flu and not COVID. I pointed out that that’s the reason I’m not totally against masks.



Not perplexed. At all.

Jerzylvania wrote:
The efficacy of masks containing expelled droplets is unquestioned in the medical community.


You’d think. I think a couple of the things I linked earlier actually explain thats not the case(they might not, but I came across some sources for that while I was getting ze links). It’s actually pretty interesting to follow the history of the surgical masks, if you’re a nerd like I am.

Edit: if you do go looking don’t worry about digging if you can’t find that, I don’t wanna waste your time lol. I’ll find a piece about it, it’s kinds tough these days though, because obvs if you type in “mask” it’s a bunch of COVID-19 stuff
Edit again: err, actually, this might be getting a bit off topic.


It might help if you actually read up on it. Your comments suggest you haven’t.

Masks are a legal topic for this thread as trump is so outspoken against them.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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