NationStates

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:Honestly, all sides spew propaganda and we all pick to follow which line propaganda aligns with our values and beliefs. It's confirmation bias, yes, but it because the media is so politically charged it's what happens.

Found the centrist! Let's get 'em!

There are dumb people on both sides, that is a fact
There are also smart people on both sides, that’s a fact too

Kexholm Karelia wrote:

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Found the centrist! Let's get 'em!

There are dumb people on both sides, that is a fact
There are also smart people on both sides, that’s a fact too

Theres some very fine people on both sides.

The Emerald Legion wrote:This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

As Trump said, being in charge means it IS your responsibility.
But yes, Trump certainly is not the only one who made mistakes. Nor the only person that told lies, considered the economy more important than the people etc. Plenty of blame to pass around.

But quite a lot of it DOES belong on his lap.

The Alma Mater wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

As Trump said, being in charge means it IS your responsibility.
But yes, Trump certainly is not the only one who made mistakes. Nor the only person that told lies, considered the economy more important than the people etc. Plenty of blame to pass around.

But quite a lot of it DOES belong on his lap.

The issue is he's not really in charge of them. They can and will do whatever the fuck they want regardless of what he says, and aside from withholding funds he can't do anything about it. And withholding funds just lets the TDS screech about how he's trying to kill off Democrats.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yeah we all remember when Biden claimed covid wasn't a problem when he knew it was and knowingly let people die for the economy.

Just kidding, that was Donald Trump.

We all remember when Donald claimed that it was wrong to close travel to and from China. Oh wait, no that was Joe Biden.

This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

Frankly they're lucky Trump is as even handed as he is.

Meanwhile in the real world:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... g-n1242258

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... re-deadly/

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... g-n1187691

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... al-symbol/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... izing-ppe/

Next time you decide to push a false narrative, make sure it can't be disproven in 30 seconds with a Google search.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yeah we all remember when Biden claimed covid wasn't a problem when he knew it was and knowingly let people die for the economy.

Just kidding, that was Donald Trump.

We all remember when Donald claimed that it was wrong to close travel to and from China. Oh wait, no that was Joe Biden.

This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

Trump did fine because you can hypothesise ways he could have done worse.

That's a strong argument. But it could have been a lot stronger.

Frankly they're lucky Trump is as even handed as he is.

And again. He was not bad because he could have been be worse. About as meaningful as "He was not good because he could have been better" ... are you genuinely this vague and confused about the world, or are you desperately trying to make excuses for Trump but drawing a blank?

It's not your opinion that matters. And certainly not mine. According to the voters, Trump fucked up so bad he had to be removed after only one term. We shouldn't compare him with GHW Bush, because Bush's 4 years came on top of 8 years of his own party: something which had never happened since term limits were introduced. No, President Trump can only be compared to Carter in the strength of rebuke the voters delivered to him. And you must agree, Biden is no Reagan.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
We all remember when Donald claimed that it was wrong to close travel to and from China. Oh wait, no that was Joe Biden.

This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

Frankly they're lucky Trump is as even handed as he is.

Meanwhile in the real world:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... g-n1242258

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... re-deadly/

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... g-n1187691

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... al-symbol/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... izing-ppe/

Next time you decide to push a false narrative, make sure it can't be disproven in 30 seconds with a Google search.

> In the real world.
> Cites noted liars.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Meanwhile in the real world:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... g-n1242258

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... re-deadly/

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... g-n1187691

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... al-symbol/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... izing-ppe/

Next time you decide to push a false narrative, make sure it can't be disproven in 30 seconds with a Google search.

> In the real world.
> Cites noted liars.

So what are the actual facts and what evidence supports those facts?

The shit Trump says is more harmful than anything. He's single-handedly responsible for the partisanization of things like masks. He says things like "the reason our cases are going up is because we're testing" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!".

He utters insane nonsense and the base follows him off a cliff. In terms of how he's handled the crisis, he's spun responsibility off to the governors. Your governor is the decision maker here; Trump's up in the peanut gallery.

The only area where the Feds have played a really active role is in supporting vaccine development.

Eukaryotic Cells wrote:The shit Trump says is more harmful than anything. He's single-handedly responsible for the partisanization of things like masks. He says things like "the reason our cases are going up is because we're testing" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!".

He utters insane nonsense and the base follows him off a cliff. In terms of how he's handled the crisis, he's spun responsibility off to the governors. Your governor is the decision maker here; Trump's up in the peanut gallery.

The only area where the Feds have played a really active role is in supporting vaccine development.

He's not even playing a strong supporting or coordinating role. The National Governors Association has been the main vehicle for that. Pence will lead conference calls among the governors to provide updates and advice.

Trump allegedly doesn't even attend the COVID taskforce meetings either. It's unclear what the purpose of that body even is at this point. They're certainly not there to advise the President.

Eukaryotic Cells wrote:The only area where the Feds have played a really active role is in supporting vaccine development.

However, ironically, pfizer got zero help from Trump - and went to great lengths to mention that when Trump tried to take credit.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yeah we all remember when Biden claimed covid wasn't a problem when he knew it was and knowingly let people die for the economy.

Just kidding, that was Donald Trump.

We all remember when Donald claimed that it was wrong to close travel to and from China. Oh wait, no that was Joe Biden.

This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

Frankly they're lucky Trump is as even handed as he is.

Close the borders? You mean that leaky sieve he had setup which only was for Chinese nationals? Everybody else like a friends who did business or was visiting relatives were let through. The one visiting his relatives planned to be quarantined and was shocked he was allowed through.

Trump called himself the war time president in the war against covid. He was right. He was the Vichy President.

Trump was a blessing for covid.

Greater Miami Shores wrote:A few very serious questions, I am not a doctor, I am not a scientist and I am not a health expert.

1 - If 2 persons or more live in a home, can a person at home affect you with the virus? If so under what circumstances?

Yes, obviously. This is, in fact, the most common form of transmission, and the form with the highest attack rate (20-40%).

2 - Like not wearing the masks at home with each other?

3 - Like not social distancing at home from each other?4 - Other reasons?

Thank you all - GMS.

Wearing masks and social distancing would have some kind of benefit, but probably not a particularly large one - the sheer amount of time spent together in enclosed, poorly-ventilated spaces will leave you quite likely to be infected, even with mitigations.

Great Algerstonia wrote:

Jerzylvania wrote:Propagandists spew on all sides? Nah.

Facts are objective. Ex: Let's look at the presidential election results. Biden decisively won the Popular vote and the Electoral vote.

Values and beliefs are subjective ideas. Ex: Breitbart conspiracy theories concerning voter fraud.

When you think facts are subjective beliefs, you have no clue about the truth. Maybe that's actually why you think propagandists spew on all sides.

So the liberal media twisting Trump's words into him saying that COVID was a hoax when he said that the Democrats politicizing COVID is not propaganda?

No, it's just true. It's a thing that he has said literally dozens of times over the last year.

The Black Forrest wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
We all remember when Donald claimed that it was wrong to close travel to and from China. Oh wait, no that was Joe Biden.

This whole myth that Trump fucked the coronavirus response is stupid. No, Dem mayor's fucked Coronavirus response and then used Trump as an excuse.

Frankly they're lucky Trump is as even handed as he is.

Close the borders? You mean that leaky sieve he had setup which only was for Chinese nationals? Everybody else like a friends who did business or was visiting relatives were let through. The one visiting his relatives planned to be quarantined and was shocked he was allowed through.

Trump called himself the war time president in the war against covid. He was right. He was the Vichy President.

Trump was a blessing for covid.

Wow, he closed borders during a global pandemic? What a bar he cleared there.

The fact that we're even still discussing the border closures is sad. Have you really not made any other decisions of substance since then? The virus still came to our shores, so what good did you do?

Kexholm Karelia wrote:

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Found the centrist! Let's get 'em!

There are dumb people on both sides, that is a fact
There are also smart people on both sides, that’s a fact too

The difference is that one side refuses to listen to said smart people when it comes to policy.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Eukaryotic Cells wrote:The only area where the Feds have played a really active role is in supporting vaccine development.

However, ironically, pfizer got zero help from Trump - and went to great lengths to mention that when Trump tried to take credit.

And Moderna got a load of money from Dolly Parton, hero of the workers.

A real good question: What's the President doing right now? We're headed into the winter wave, where is he? Where are the fireside chats telling people what they need to do while the vaccines are on their way?

Oh right, he's tweeting from a golf course about how the election was stolen and taking swipes at Governor Cuomo over vaccine approvals. Some strong leadership right there.

Anyone who denies Trump fucked up the Covid response is just being intentionally ignorant of the facts. Yes, Democrats have likely screwed some responses up too, notably the moronic placing of Covid patients in nursing homes in some places.

Trump, however, has encouraged reckless and lethal behaviour, denounced measures to protect lives, done everything in his power to rile up his base into thinking they are fighting for freedom when they go around spreading the disease.

Albrenia wrote:Anyone who denies Trump fucked up the Covid response is just being intentionally ignorant of the facts. Yes, Democrats have likely screwed some responses up too, notably the moronic placing of Covid patients in nursing homes in some places.

Trump, however, has encouraged reckless and lethal behaviour, denounced measures to protect lives, done everything in his power to rile up his base into thinking they are fighting for freedom when they go around spreading the disease.

Trump being weak and acting poorly on Covid cost him the Presidency.

With better handling of the crisis, or without it, Trump would have won.

Nakena wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Anyone who denies Trump fucked up the Covid response is just being intentionally ignorant of the facts. Yes, Democrats have likely screwed some responses up too, notably the moronic placing of Covid patients in nursing homes in some places.

Trump, however, has encouraged reckless and lethal behaviour, denounced measures to protect lives, done everything in his power to rile up his base into thinking they are fighting for freedom when they go around spreading the disease.

Trump being weak and acting poorly on Covid cost him the Presidency.

With better handling of the crisis, or without it, Trump would have won.

His poor handling of the crisis definitely didn't net him any voters but I'm not entirely convinced it drove them away, either, given how successful he was in making it a starkly partisan issue. Any other election year and it would seem to be clear-cut.

Nakena wrote:

Albrenia wrote:Anyone who denies Trump fucked up the Covid response is just being intentionally ignorant of the facts. Yes, Democrats have likely screwed some responses up too, notably the moronic placing of Covid patients in nursing homes in some places.

Trump, however, has encouraged reckless and lethal behaviour, denounced measures to protect lives, done everything in his power to rile up his base into thinking they are fighting for freedom when they go around spreading the disease.

Trump being weak and acting poorly on Covid cost him the Presidency.

With better handling of the crisis, or without it, Trump would have won.

I firmly agree. I still think even without Covid Trump is a dangerous idiot who should never have been put in the most powerful seat in the world, but I can't deny he was going to win without Covid, and would have bodied Biden utterly had Covid happened and he responded competently.

Albrenia wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Trump being weak and acting poorly on Covid cost him the Presidency.

With better handling of the crisis, or without it, Trump would have won.

I firmly agree. I still think even without Covid Trump is a dangerous idiot who should never have been put in the most powerful seat in the world, but I can't deny he was going to win without Covid, and would have bodied Biden utterly had Covid happened and he responded competently.

God works in mysterious ways.

Albrenia wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Trump being weak and acting poorly on Covid cost him the Presidency.

With better handling of the crisis, or without it, Trump would have won.

I firmly agree. I still think even without Covid Trump is a dangerous idiot who should never have been put in the most powerful seat in the world, but I can't deny he was going to win without Covid, and would have bodied Biden utterly had Covid happened and he responded competently.

The problem is that Donald Trump was never going to respond to COVID competently, if he did he would basically be an entirely different president than what we've grown accustomed to over the past three years.

So Trump just fired the DHS guy that said the elections were fair and secure.

Wow, I wonder if anyone saw that coming, lol.