MAGAThread XX: A Journal of the Plague Year

[Ranoria]

Well, at least you're conceding that your point is hinged upon your assumption of racism, ignoring all other factors at play, seems to be a common trend. May I also presume that you then are aware of the very weak claim you're making?

Iirc, and I was young(er) at the time, there was some argument about Barack Obama's birth certificate not being found, and his not being an American citizen. That whole thing seemed weird to me even then, but that's where that stemmed from, not racism.

Oh no, it existed. Trump and those who were on that particular train declared it was a fake certificate.

Meanwile, John McCain was born in Panama, but on an American naval base, so he was a natural born citizen. But someone ignorant of the rules about that could have claimed that he had no right to run and been forgiven for not knowing how it worked.

Saying the birth certificate was a forgery, though -- you see where this is going? Any truth that was inconvenient has been labeled "fake" for the past six years. (pre-inauguration to today).

Like I said, weird.

No, I said most of the GOP are fascists.

What does the word "Most" mean Romextly?

Oh are you still pretending fascist is anybody you don't like?

Apparently so. Good times. Meanwhile, Inglorious Basterds is my favorite movie. Funny.

[Ifreann]

I hope Mitch McConnell does everything possible to stop AOC and the other leftist Democrats from influencing the Biden administration

yes because how dare both sides work together.

I mean. Yeah? Why would you want Democrats to ever work with Republicans after all the shit Republicans have been doing for the last four years?

---

That’s like saying "Hitler was a little bit of good and bad. He killed millions of Jews but improved Germany’s infrastructure and economy after the depression"

I mean he did though. We can factually say that while also admitting he killed millions of innocent people and caused a horrible war.

He didn't improve Germany's infrastructure and economy, though. The Nazis, like all fascists, were incompetent and corrupt.

[Katganistan]

Y'all hear about this "Parler" social media thing.

No, but from a cursory Google search,

Parler is a United States-based microblogging and social networking service launched in August 2018. Parler has a significant user base of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Saudi nationalists. Posts on the website often contain far-right content, antisemitism, and conspiracy theories.

Sounds like a Twitter alternative echo chamber for people too far right and edgy for 4chan.The Saudi part is a bit weird though.

Bunch of people I know are leaving Facebook for it for daring to put those "this message contains misleading information" notices on anything QAnon and Trump.

[Katganistan]

Well then you have bad opinions.

why should someone become a citizen just because they happen to be born on American soil?

why is Jus soli good? only the western hemisphere countries primarily do that.

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

[Albrenia]

why should someone become a citizen just because they happen to be born on American soil?

why is Jus soli good? only the western hemisphere countries primarily do that.

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

They have to be citizens of some country, and what better way to decide which if their two parents are different nationalities?

[Tarsonis]

why should someone become a citizen just because they happen to be born on American soil?

why is Jus soli good? only the western hemisphere countries primarily do that.

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

That's not accurate. Jus soli was only introduced via the 14th amendment after the Civil War. And most of the Founding Fathers were born and raised in the colonies. The only exception to that, that comes to mind off the top of my head was Hamilton, and the fact that he was an immigrant was counted against him not for him.



Swing and a miss kat.

[Geneviev]

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

"Anchor babies." It's silly, and jus soli makes much more sense.

[Tarsonis]

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

No, but from a cursory Google search,



Sounds like a Twitter alternative echo chamber for people too far right and edgy for 4chan.The Saudi part is a bit weird though.

Bunch of people I know are leaving Facebook for it for daring to put those "this message contains misleading information" notices on anything QAnon and Trump.

Imo, the only way social media could avoid doing that would be to have a "do not snitch" rule. Anyone making a report which isn't actionable gets a punishment. This would allow them to satisfy regulators that they're taking down all illegal content they are aware of but without having to police all the marginal cases.

Still they'd have a problem with celebrity accounts (eg Trump) because "we didn't know it was there" isn't so plausible.

[Albrenia]

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

As a default position, yes. Otherwise you'd have the possibility of people with no citizenship at all.

[New haven america]

Oh no, it existed. Trump and those who were on that particular train declared it was a fake certificate.

Meanwile, John McCain was born in Panama, but on an American naval base, so he was a natural born citizen. But someone ignorant of the rules about that could have claimed that he had no right to run and been forgiven for not knowing how it worked.

Saying the birth certificate was a forgery, though -- you see where this is going? Any truth that was inconvenient has been labeled "fake" for the past six years. (pre-inauguration to today).

Like I said, weird.

Oh are you still pretending fascist is anybody you don't like?

Apparently so. Good times. Meanwhile, Inglorious Basterds is my favorite movie. Funny.

No, not apparently so.

I'm stating the obvious fact that most of the GOP are fascists. Due to the fact that they act like, fascists.

[Tarsonis]

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

As a default position, yes. Otherwise you'd have the possibility of people with no citizenship at all.

Except we're Americans, so our child would automatically get American Citizenship. Point worth mentioning under current German law, my child would not be a German citizen. However Germany, like all of Europe does have an exception for "stateless people" in which a person born in their country with no citizenship would become a German citizen.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

Ideally, yes. Dual German/US citizenship. You would have to choose within a time limit though (which could be a bit longer for a child) since people shouldn't hold dual or multiple citizenships indefinitely. It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

[New haven america]

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

Ideally, yes. Dual German/US citizenship. You would have to choose within a time limit though (which could be a bit longer for a child) since people shouldn't hold dual or multiple citizenships indefinitely. It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

Why not?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

As a default position, yes. Otherwise you'd have the possibility of people with no citizenship at all.

Except we're Americans, so our child would automatically get American Citizenship. Point worth mentioning under current German law, my child would not be a German citizen. However Germany, like all of Europe does have an exception for "stateless people" in which a person born in their country with no citizenship would become a German citizen.

To account for couples whose female member is pregnant at the time they flee to another country (ie, they will likely never go back) it's necessary to allow temporary dual citizenship, so that if the parents succeed in getting legal residency or citizenship there's no need to apply on behalf of their child as well. It should be obvious that deporting the child for not being a citizen, but letting the parents stay, isn't a sane course of action. And dual citizenship allows the child to go back with the parents if the application for asylum is rejected. They're already a citizen (via their parents).

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Ideally, yes. Dual German/US citizenship. You would have to choose within a time limit though (which could be a bit longer for a child) since people shouldn't hold dual or multiple citizenships indefinitely. It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

Why not?

It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

[New haven america]

Why not?

It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

So?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So?

Privilege from birth is Unamerican, therefore the US should allow US citizens to be citizens of some other country, only temporarily. Say 2 years, or 6 years for children. I'm actually a bit surprised you're OK with some children growing up to the age of 18 and then being free to move to some other country, in the same school as children who don't have that privilege. You see nothing wrong with inherited privilege?

You're presumably thinking of it from a patriotic US point of view "my country is the best, why shouldn't my citizens have to right to advantages in some other country since they're all inferior". But if you consider it from the point of view of two American teenagers, one with the option to move to Sweden and the other without any options, surely you can see that one is privileged from birth, over the other?

[San Lumen]

Why the heck wouldn't someone born in a country be automatically a citizen there, anyway?

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

I dont see why not.

[Kanaia]

Founding fathers were good with it.
Probably because so many of their families were from SOMEWHERE ELSE and immigrated here....

That's not accurate. Jus soli was only introduced via the 14th amendment after the Civil War. And most of the Founding Fathers were born and raised in the colonies. The only exception to that, that comes to mind off the top of my head was Hamilton, and the fact that he was an immigrant was counted against him not for him.



Swing and a miss kat.

Except that originally one only had to reside in the US for 2 years and be white to gain citizenship. US rules for citizenship has always reflected the fact that the US is a country of immigrants.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

That's not accurate. Jus soli was only introduced via the 14th amendment after the Civil War. And most of the Founding Fathers were born and raised in the colonies. The only exception to that, that comes to mind off the top of my head was Hamilton, and the fact that he was an immigrant was counted against him not for him.



Swing and a miss kat.

Except that originally one only had to reside in the US for 2 years and be white to gain citizenship. US rules for citizenship has always reflected the fact that the US is a country of immigrants.

That's so liberal -- apart from the "white" part -- I say bring it back. Maybe make it 5 years, with a work requirement. Get a work visa, satisfy the hours/week requirement of it for 5 years, also no felony convictions, and you're a citizen. Whattaya all think?

[The Alma Mater]

Except that originally one only had to reside in the US for 2 years and be white to gain citizenship. US rules for citizenship has always reflected the fact that the US is a country of immigrants.

That's so liberal -- apart from the "white" part -- I say bring it back. Maybe make it 5 years, with a work requirement. Get a work visa, satisfy the hours/week requirement of it for 5 years, also no felony convictions, and you're a citizen. Whattaya all think?

What if an incompetent president mismanages a pandemic causing widespread jobloss, preventing you from to satisfy the hours/week requirement ?

[Vilhelumea]

That's so liberal -- apart from the "white" part -- I say bring it back. Maybe make it 5 years, with a work requirement. Get a work visa, satisfy the hours/week requirement of it for 5 years, also no felony convictions, and you're a citizen. Whattaya all think?

What if an incompetent president mismanages a pandemic causing widespread jobloss, preventing you from to satisfy the hours/week requirement ?

Surely that can never happen in an election in a democratic country where incompetent politicians would lose an election?

[Tarsonis]

Say me and my hypothetical wife, American citizens (presumably.) decide to go to Europe while she's seven months pregnant. While were trapsing around Berlin, she goes into premature labor, and our child is born in a hospital in Germany. Would it make sense for that child to be given German citizenship?

Ideally, yes. Dual German/US citizenship. You would have to choose within a time limit though (which could be a bit longer for a child) since people shouldn't hold dual or multiple citizenships indefinitely. It gives them options which single citizenship holders do not have, and if that is by birth it is an unearned privilege.

you haven't said why