MAGAThread XX: A Journal of the Plague Year

[Istoreya]

Anyone got that Parler screenshot of someone claiming every Republican should have the right to murder 2 Democrats because "no-one would care"?

No, I imagine such images are a dime a dozen though. More seriously, there’s the fact that a number of police departments, federal law enforcement forces, and military units appear to have been infiltrated by Trump-sympathizing supporters of the coup, who would seem to stand in stark opposition to Aureum’s apparent amusement at the idea that the Trump movement could field effective paramilitary forces ever again moving forward.

Can't find the specific one I was talking about, but it is funny that you bring up Trump supporters in the police, since the replacement post I was going to bring was this:

The man who posted this just so happened to be a police chief (until he got fired for posting this and some similar posts saying that Democrats deserved to be pushed into the road and have water thrown at them in restaurants)

[Kexholm Karelia]

Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

Considering that the storming of the capitol seems to have been planned including the pipe bombs and the planning of the kidnapping of various liberal politicians in various parts of the country by Trump supporters...some of them yes.

Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

Given that there are heavily armed militia organizations across the country that support the president and have been identified by intelligence and law enforcement as posing serious violent threats... yes, if they’re given the chance, which they nearly were on the Capitol if Congress hadn’t escaped. Have you missed all the guys in flak jackets with assault rifles who show up to these things, or all the people talking openly about killing liberals?

You’re taking a fringe and generalizing it to 70 million+ Trump supporters. I can do the same with BLM rioters and antifa and generalize that to everyone on the left

[Cannot think of a name]

Considering that the storming of the capitol seems to have been planned including the pipe bombs and the planning of the kidnapping of various liberal politicians in various parts of the country by Trump supporters...some of them yes.

Given that there are heavily armed militia organizations across the country that support the president and have been identified by intelligence and law enforcement as posing serious violent threats... yes, if they’re given the chance, which they nearly were on the Capitol if Congress hadn’t escaped. Have you missed all the guys in flak jackets with assault rifles who show up to these things, or all the people talking openly about killing liberals?

You’re taking a fringe and generalizing it to 70 million+ Trump supporters. I can do the same with BLM rioters and antifa and generalize that to everyone on the left

When BLM or antifa storms the capitol building trying to hang the Vice President and Speaker of the House while Biden tells them he loves them and are very special we can talk.

EDIT: I feel like too many people's momma's let them get out of trouble by pointing out that some other kid did something bad so what they did was okay.

[Vassenor]

Considering that the storming of the capitol seems to have been planned including the pipe bombs and the planning of the kidnapping of various liberal politicians in various parts of the country by Trump supporters...some of them yes.

Given that there are heavily armed militia organizations across the country that support the president and have been identified by intelligence and law enforcement as posing serious violent threats... yes, if they’re given the chance, which they nearly were on the Capitol if Congress hadn’t escaped. Have you missed all the guys in flak jackets with assault rifles who show up to these things, or all the people talking openly about killing liberals?

You’re taking a fringe and generalizing it to 70 million+ Trump supporters. I can do the same with BLM rioters and antifa and generalize that to everyone on the left

I mean there's not a whole lot of condemning of it going on.

[Senkaku]

Considering that the storming of the capitol seems to have been planned including the pipe bombs and the planning of the kidnapping of various liberal politicians in various parts of the country by Trump supporters...some of them yes.

Given that there are heavily armed militia organizations across the country that support the president and have been identified by intelligence and law enforcement as posing serious violent threats... yes, if they’re given the chance, which they nearly were on the Capitol if Congress hadn’t escaped. Have you missed all the guys in flak jackets with assault rifles who show up to these things, or all the people talking openly about killing liberals?

You’re taking a fringe and generalizing it to 70 million+ Trump supporters. I can do the same with BLM rioters and antifa and generalize that to everyone on the left

You can’t dismiss this as a fringe movement any more. Polls show a majority of Republicans are still behind everything that’s happened and the “fringe movement” you’ve made excuses for for so long has nearly murdered Congress.

As for the tiresome both-sides shit, a few things:

One— “BLM rioters and antifa” have not attempted to overthrow the American government by massacring Congressional leaders and illegally installing an illegitimate executive, as the Trump movement now has. Their violent actions over the summer did not gain the support of many members of Congress, nor did members of Congress assist anyone in planning such acts days in advance, or provide them with intelligence about their targets while such acts were in progress. In short, you cannot “do the same” with violent “leftist” agitators, because those people simply have not done the same things or enjoyed the same support. Equations between the two are simply nonsensical and I’m not going to entertain them further.

Two— even if you could make such an equation, and claim that the Trump putsch wing is only a fringe movement comparable to “BLM and antifa” (which, to be clear, you can’t), let’s circle back to the start of this post, where there is an additional flaw in your argument. You say that it isn’t reasonable to generalize fears of violence from a fringe group onto a large body of millions of people. However, were large-scale violence to break out across the country, wouldn’t you agree that it would be reasonable to expect many more people to be mobilized to commit violent acts by each side— people who currently don’t espouse such actions, but who might come to if pushed hard enough? Therefore, it’d be entirely reasonable to worry that a significant percentage of continuing Trump supporters would come to behave like the people you currently dismiss as a “fringe.”

Incidentally, this mobilization appears to be occurring on the right anyways, without comparable responses from the left, driven by forces other than an existing war pushing people across moral boundaries— another hint that your comparison of “BLM/antifa” to the Trump movement is a completely unfounded one.

[Esalia]

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Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

The comic's not supposed to be literal.

But I'll tell you what all Trump supporters are: supporters of a man who has massively divided the country, and thus any calls from them for unity are hypocritical.

[Kexholm Karelia]

You’re taking a fringe and generalizing it to 70 million+ Trump supporters. I can do the same with BLM rioters and antifa and generalize that to everyone on the left

When BLM or antifa storms the capitol building trying to hang the Vice President and Speaker of the House while Biden tells them he loves them and are very special we can talk.

EDIT: I feel like too many people's momma's let them get out of trouble by pointing out that some other kid did something bad so what they did was okay.

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

[Cannot think of a name]

When BLM or antifa storms the capitol building trying to hang the Vice President and Speaker of the House while Biden tells them he loves them and are very special we can talk.

EDIT: I feel like too many people's momma's let them get out of trouble by pointing out that some other kid did something bad so what they did was okay.

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

That's fine and all, but a horde of Trump supporters egged on by the president himself rushed the Capitol building trying to assassinate the Vice President, Speaker of the House and members of congress and while they were trashing the place the President told them that he loved them and they were special.

[Senkaku]

When BLM or antifa storms the capitol building trying to hang the Vice President and Speaker of the House while Biden tells them he loves them and are very special we can talk.

EDIT: I feel like too many people's momma's let them get out of trouble by pointing out that some other kid did something bad so what they did was okay.

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

“Fringe” movements do not control two thirds of their party’s House caucus, as a rule. 139 House Republicans, plus however many senators voted to overturn even after the coup, that’s what a “fringe” is to you? If even at that scale and that level of control over the state, they should be considered a fringe whose actions shouldn’t impugn anyone else’s, then please let me never hear another word out of your mouth about “BLM and antifa” again.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Anyone got that Parler screenshot of someone claiming every Republican should have the right to murder 2 Democrats because "no-one would care"?

No, I imagine such images are a dime a dozen though. More seriously, there’s the fact that a number of police departments, federal law enforcement forces, and military units appear to have been infiltrated by Trump-sympathizing supporters of the coup, who would seem to stand in stark opposition to Aureum’s apparent amusement at the idea that the Trump movement could field effective paramilitary forces ever again moving forward.

Watch out, ghost skins about.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

When BLM or antifa storms the capitol building trying to hang the Vice President and Speaker of the House while Biden tells them he loves them and are very special we can talk.

EDIT: I feel like too many people's momma's let them get out of trouble by pointing out that some other kid did something bad so what they did was okay.

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

Considering that 45% of Republicans support the coup, it isnt a fringe.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

Considering that 45% of Republicans support the coup, it isnt a fringe.

He wouldn't know. He lives in Iceland.

[Cannot think of a name]

I think you missed the point. The argument of whether or not BLM and Antifa’s destruction is equitable to that of Trump insurrectionists is irrelevant here, it’s a counter example of why generalizing an entire political wing based on the action of a fringe is dishonest and helps no one

Considering that 45% of Republicans support the coup, it isnt a fringe.

Also, when it is the expressed desire of the leader of the movement the idea of it being 'fringe' is sort of moot.

[Gravlen]

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Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

It's not meant to be taken literally, but maybe this is worth repeating?

“Both parties have extremists,” said the GOP lawmaker. “There's a difference in our crazy people and their crazy people. Our crazy people have an excessive amount of arms. They have gun safes. They have grenades. They believe in the Second Amendment. They come here and Trump's made them think this is the Alamo.”

Even the GOP is afraid of what their own voters might do.

[Kexholm Karelia]

Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

It's not meant to be taken literally, but maybe this is worth repeating?

“Both parties have extremists,” said the GOP lawmaker. “There's a difference in our crazy people and their crazy people. Our crazy people have an excessive amount of arms. They have gun safes. They have grenades. They believe in the Second Amendment. They come here and Trump's made them think this is the Alamo.”

Even the GOP is afraid of what their own voters might do.

I agree with that lawmaker

[Vassenor]

It's not meant to be taken literally, but maybe this is worth repeating?

“Both parties have extremists,” said the GOP lawmaker. “There's a difference in our crazy people and their crazy people. Our crazy people have an excessive amount of arms. They have gun safes. They have grenades. They believe in the Second Amendment. They come here and Trump's made them think this is the Alamo.”

Even the GOP is afraid of what their own voters might do.

I agree with that lawmaker

But doing anything about it is political persecution and thus is the greatest evil.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Considering that 45% of Republicans support the coup, it isnt a fringe.

Also, when it is the expressed desire of the leader of the movement the idea of it being 'fringe' is sort of moot.

Trumpism is inherently violent.

[Diahon]

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Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

hahahahahahahaha oh sweet, sweet summer child

[Ranoria]

Lol what do you think Trump supporters are? Some sort of paramilitary that’ll hunt down every liberal?

Yes. You must have been on vacation when the attempted coup happened.

I think you just don't support our first amendment rights /s.

I don't think any conservatives or republicans other than the fringe groups are defending what happened at the capitol, it was disgusting, and anyone who breached the building or caused any damage should be arrested and such. But at the same time, you don't get to call firebombing court houses, launching fireworks at officers, throwing bricks, burning down businesses, etc. a peaceful protest and then suddenly decide that this is what deserves backlash. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, and it was very bad. But be consistent. Law and order doesn't work if it's only to be applied when it's not your side rioting.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yes. You must have been on vacation when the attempted coup happened.

I think you just don't support our first amendment rights /s.

I don't think any conservatives or republicans other than the fringe groups are defending what happened at the capitol, it was disgusting, and anyone who breached the building or caused any damage should be arrested and such. But at the same time, you don't get to call firebombing court houses, launching fireworks at officers, throwing bricks, burning down businesses, etc. a peaceful protest and then suddenly decide that this is what deserves backlash. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, and it was very bad. But be consistent. Law and order doesn't work if it's only to be applied when it's not your side rioting.

When did I call any of that peaceful #1 and #2 you really don't know me if you think I'm against the first amendment lol.

[Ranoria]

I think you just don't support our first amendment rights /s.

I don't think any conservatives or republicans other than the fringe groups are defending what happened at the capitol, it was disgusting, and anyone who breached the building or caused any damage should be arrested and such. But at the same time, you don't get to call firebombing court houses, launching fireworks at officers, throwing bricks, burning down businesses, etc. a peaceful protest and then suddenly decide that this is what deserves backlash. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, and it was very bad. But be consistent. Law and order doesn't work if it's only to be applied when it's not your side rioting.

When did I call any of that peaceful #1 and #2 you really don't know me if you think I'm against the first amendment lol.

That's what the "/s" is for. , as to the first amendment. It's supposed to mean "sarcasm," kinda like how we have our /b or whatever.

I'm honestly not sure if it was you that did call that stuff peaceful. I know that every time I brought up the rioting, however, people would jump and claim that I was against peaceful protest, which frankly was a lot of the dialogue that was going on at the time. The disproportionate response to this riot over the constant ones is very much bothersome to me. It was almost as if people were denying that any rioting was happening when we had videos of the stuff going down, and then this happens (which needs to be cracked down on as well), and suddenly the entire left is up in arms.

TLDR, it's not so much that people are angry about this that bothers me. It's that they're only angry when it's the right rioting, and not the left. I mean, courthouses were getting firebombed, is that not a coup, then?

[Necroghastia]

TLDR, it's not so much that people are angry about this that bothers me. It's that they're only angry when it's the right rioting, and not the left. I mean, courthouses were getting firebombed, is that not a coup, then?

Last I checked courthouses =/= the literal capitol building in the middle of an electoral certification.
So, no.

[Salus Maior]

TLDR, it's not so much that people are angry about this that bothers me. It's that they're only angry when it's the right rioting, and not the left. I mean, courthouses were getting firebombed, is that not a coup, then?

Last I checked courthouses =/= the literal capitol building in the middle of an electoral certification.
So, no.

It's more or less two sides of the same coin; a blatant disrespect of institutions, political violence, mass unrest. All that fun stuff.

That one is more severe than the other doesn't really change that.

[Jedi Council]

Last I checked courthouses =/= the literal capitol building in the middle of an electoral certification.
So, no.

It's more or less two sides of the same coin; a blatant disrespect of institutions, political violence, mass unrest. All that fun stuff.

That one is more severe than the other doesn't really change that.

There is a bit of a difference; BLM can make the case, pretty damn convincingly imo, that the Justice system, as represented by say a court house, has systematically discriminated against people of colour and caused them irreparable harm in the form of mass incarceration, murder, etc.

Occupying or rioting in a court house is therefore at least understandable.

By contrast, the Capitol Hill riot had absolutely zero basis; their argument was not backed up by any serious evidence, their motivations were entirely nefarious in that they were planning on overturning a democratic election. They went into the building chanting things like "death to Pence," came equipped with zap strap handcuffs and constructed a gallows outside.

Nuance is a thing; we should be able to identify the differences in these events without resorting to this stupid "both sides" narrative.

[Salus Maior]

It's more or less two sides of the same coin; a blatant disrespect of institutions, political violence, mass unrest. All that fun stuff.

That one is more severe than the other doesn't really change that.

There is a bit of a difference; BLM can make the case, pretty damn convincingly imo, that the Justice system, as represented by say a court house, has systematically discriminated against people of colour and caused them irreparable harm in the form of mass incarceration, murder, etc.

Occupying or rioting in a court house is therefore at least understandable.

By contrast, the Capitol Hill riot had absolutely zero basis; their argument was not backed up by any serious evidence, their motivations were entirely nefarious in that they were planning on overturning a democratic election. They went into the building chanting things like "death to Pence," came equipped with zap strap handcuffs and constructed a gallows outside.

Nuance is a thing; we should be able to identify the differences in these events without resorting to this stupid "both sides" narrative.

You're right that there really isn't any solid evidence that the election was a fraud, but that's not what the rioters believe. They're not doing this cynically.

They have a sincere belief, baseless or no, that the election is "stolen" and that the government and the people who make up it are irredeemably corrupt. So, in the same vein of BLMers acting in the belief (again, baseless or no) that destroying courthouses makes a statement about their dissatisfaction with the justice system, Trumpers saw occupying Capitol Hill in a revolutionary act as making a statement about their dissatisfaction with the government and its perceived corruption. Which, of course, the idea that Washington is irredeemably corrupt has existed well before Trump, and played a big role in his election in the first place as Trump was supposed to "drain the swamp" if you remember.

I'm not trying to make a "both sides" narrative, even though I don't like either side insofar as what they've done. I think this is just indicative that people are losing faith in government institutions on both sides of the avenue, to the point where they will openly destroy and attack said institutions.

Looking forward to 2021.