Anti-Socialism Thread

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

the list of people in this thread who need to give me the drugs they're on ever grows

Talatorum, Stylan, Orostan, Ra if you think he is, Vassenor imo, me probably, Odreria, the Maoist...

don't remember vas saying anything super odd, you mostly just talk about san marino but i've been distracted by the tankies and rijk

[Grill Pill]

'In character?' You don't even know me or what I believe in

i can assume based on the things you say, as it generally is with people

riddle me this communist
how can there be democracy if the land is not owned by the person who owns it but is owned by the community???????

[Grill Pill]

now you're just putting words in my mouth. Notice how I called Mao and Stalin savages, too?


they sure seemed fine calling themselves that

The right has a long history of adopting terminology from the left and applying it to their own movements to earn favour with the working class. This can be seen in modern terms in anarcho-capitalists adopting their name from anarchy, an inherently left-wing ideology. However, like ancaps, Naziism's core ideology and set of beliefs places it very concretely as a right-wing pro-capitalist ideology, which is why the first thing Nazis did when they got into power was partner with the existing industrial elite and make trade unions illegal.

The Nazis also made their own union so #owned.

[Marsane]

I just like to make fun.

Yes, I understand that Henry Kissinger's realpolitik involved being friendly to dictators (including socialist dictators, btw), but there is a difference between doing diplomacy with other countries and actively extolling their economic policies as the best. In my ideal world, every country would be a liberal democracy, but that is not remotely possible or probable. We make do with what we have.

the material results were the violation of sovereignty and the undermining of democratic processes abroad. along with numerous loss of human life. so yeah I endorsement of that to be about on par with endorsement of what you decry.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Talatorum, Stylan, Orostan, Ra if you think he is, Vassenor imo, me probably, Odreria, the Maoist...

don't remember vas saying anything super odd, you mostly just talk about san marino but i've been distracted by the tankies and rijk

I have to remind people it worked once and where, don't I?

...

DON'T I!?

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

i can assume based on the things you say, as it generally is with people

riddle me this communist
how can there be democracy if the land is not owned by the person who owns it but is owned by the community???????

riddle me this centrist
how are both sides equally wrong when one is much worse???????
in answer, democracy really doesn't have much to do with land, but with votes. fuck the electoral college, all my homies hate the electoral college

[Grill Pill]

[quote="-Ra-";p="38058173"
I just like to make fun.

Yes, I understand that Henry Kissinger's realpolitik involved being friendly to dictators (including socialist dictators, btw), but there is a difference between doing diplomacy with other countries and actively extolling their economic policies as the best. In my ideal world, every country would be a liberal democracy, but that is not remotely possible or probable. We make do with what we have.

the material results were the violation of sovereignty and the undermining of democratic processes abroad. along with numerous loss of human life. so yeah I endorsement of that to be about on par with endorsement of what you decry.[/quote]
They were going down the wrong path it was necessary for him to do what he did for the greater good of democracy. All the countries he intervened in are now democratic so he's really actually a long-term freedom bringer.

[An-Tanwir]

The Soviet Union only started doing good after it opened up its economy and liberalized its social policies.

Are you sure? The fallout of glasnost, aka the breakup of the Soviet Union against democratic will (yes, they did a referendum), was one of the biggest peacetime drops in quality of life in history.

Also, the source mentioned for socialist countries having better quality of life was based on world bank data from '44 up to '86, and Perestroika began actual liberalization in '87. I'd give you more specific data but thanks to our wonderfully free economic system, everything but the abstract is behind paywall, and I'm really not gonna pay to own somebody on NSG.

[Grill Pill]

riddle me this communist
how can there be democracy if the land is not owned by the person who owns it but is owned by the community???????

riddle me this centrist
how are both sides equally wrong when one is much worse???????
in answer, democracy really doesn't have much to do with land, but with votes. fuck the electoral college, all my homies hate the electoral college

a riddle with a riddle how enticing
.
to answer yours, both sides are RIGHT on some things but wrong on the others. i know what they're wrong on. read some theory, engage in praxis, and maybe you'll know too

[Exalted Inquellian State]

[quote="-Ra-";p="38058173"
I just like to make fun.

Yes, I understand that Henry Kissinger's realpolitik involved being friendly to dictators (including socialist dictators, btw), but there is a difference between doing diplomacy with other countries and actively extolling their economic policies as the best. In my ideal world, every country would be a liberal democracy, but that is not remotely possible or probable. We make do with what we have.

the material results were the violation of sovereignty and the undermining of democratic processes abroad. along with numerous loss of human life. so yeah I endorsement of that to be about on par with endorsement of what you decry.

They were going down the wrong path it was necessary for him to do what he did for the greater good of democracy. All the countries he intervened in are now democratic so he's really actually a long-term freedom bringer.[/quote]
Supporting dictators against socdems is bad no matter what. And I am very conflicted on the greater good, but I'm leaving to "no except in split second decisions", though that might change.

[-Ra-]

I just like to make fun.

Yes, I understand that Henry Kissinger's realpolitik involved being friendly to dictators (including socialist dictators, btw), but there is a difference between doing diplomacy with other countries and actively extolling their economic policies as the best. In my ideal world, every country would be a liberal democracy, but that is not remotely possible or probable. We make do with what we have.

the material results were the violation of sovereignty and the undermining of democratic processes abroad. along with numerous loss of human life. so yeah I endorsement of that to be about on par with endorsement of what you decry.

Not remotely comparable. Endorsing Kissinger, a technocrat in a liberal democracy who dealt in foreign policy with a realistic point of view is nowhere comparable to being an authoritarian crackpot. The fact that you are attacking Kissinger, one of the best diplomats in the 20th century, speaks volumes to the fact that you cannot distinguish between realistic foreign policy from terrible domestic economic policy.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

don't remember vas saying anything super odd, you mostly just talk about san marino but i've been distracted by the tankies and rijk

I have to remind people it worked once and where, don't I?

...

DON'T I!?

i guess. your dedication is admirable. every time i hear san marino, it reminds me of marimo moss ballsimagine supporting any states couldn't be me bc i can't be bothered to learn about any i'm too busy reading all the ~spicy~ discourse

[Salus Maior]

Literally everyone recognizes there is lol. It's why we don't equate a one off murderer with Reinhard Heydrich.

Who was a member of a self-described socialist regime

The NSDAP wasn't socialist in any meaningful way.

[Grill Pill]

I have to remind people it worked once and where, don't I?

...

DON'T I!?

i guess. your dedication is admirable. every time i hear san marino, it reminds me of marimo moss ballsimagine supporting any states couldn't be me bc i can't be bothered to learn about any i'm too busy reading all the ~spicy~ discourse

balls are great for grilling! especially rocky mountain oysters

[Grill Pill]

Who was a member of a self-described socialist regime

The NSDAP wasn't socialist in any meaningful way.

Not true. They did a lot of socialist things.

[-Ra-]

The Soviet Union only started doing good after it opened up its economy and liberalized its social policies.

Are you sure? The fallout of glasnost, aka the breakup of the Soviet Union against democratic will (yes, they did a referendum), was one of the biggest peacetime drops in quality of life in history.

Also, the source mentioned for socialist countries having better quality of life was based on world bank data from '44 up to '86, and Perestroika began actual liberalization in '87. I'd give you more specific data but thanks to our wonderfully free economic system, everything but the abstract is behind paywall, and I'm really not gonna pay to own somebody on NSG.

The Soviet Union did not have a better way of life than its capitalist counterparts, and nor did the Soviet satellite states. I'm afraid that you are just wrong. But you can keep telling yourself that.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

i guess. your dedication is admirable. every time i hear san marino, it reminds me of marimo moss ballsimagine supporting any states couldn't be me bc i can't be bothered to learn about any i'm too busy reading all the ~spicy~ discourse

balls are great for grilling! especially rocky mountain oysters

Leave.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

The NSDAP wasn't socialist in any meaningful way.

Not true. They did a lot of socialist things.

I mean, sure, but they were center or third position at best.

[Grill Pill]

balls are great for grilling! especially rocky mountain oysters

Leave.

ho ho ho looks like someone hates GRILLED foods

[-Ra-]

Who was a member of a self-described socialist regime

The NSDAP wasn't socialist in any meaningful way.

In theory, they aren't. If you take off the veneer of theory they are both excuses for authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

[Grill Pill]

Not true. They did a lot of socialist things.

I mean, sure, but they were center or third position at best.

They're to the center-left of me I say

[Marsane]

Not remotely comparable. Endorsing Kissinger, a technocrat in a liberal democracy who dealt in foreign policy with a realistic point of view is nowhere comparable to being an authoritarian crackpot. The fact that you are attacking Kissinger, one of the best diplomats in the 20th century, speaks volumes to the fact that you cannot distinguish between realistic foreign policy from terrible domestic economic policy.

yeah all of that does not change the material results of the violation of sovereignty and the undermining of democracy abroad. like you can literally apply the same argument to any thing which had negative material outcomes.

if you support him you are in opposition to democracy and national sovereignty, sorry sweetie!

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

The NSDAP wasn't socialist in any meaningful way.

Not true. They did a lot of socialist things.

let me guess, welfare and healthcare reforms?

[Grill Pill]

Not true. They did a lot of socialist things.

let me guess, welfare and healthcare reforms?

long speeches and fans who just won't go away

[Picairn]

the breakup of the Soviet Union against democratic will (yes, they did a referendum)

Not necessarily. The Baltic states, Georgia and Moldova wanted out.