Anti-Socialism Thread

[Stylan]

Getting blown out about what? Being blown out by your defense of a petty authoritarian? I think not lol.

Bud you've been blown out on almost every topic you've tried to argue.

His argument's just boil down to the usual "well Venezeula"

Also how did we even get on Bolivia? Bolivia isn't socialist, nor is it communist.

[-Ra-]

This is objectively incorrect, but if you want to use a measure that is adjusted for inequality, the inequality-adjusted human development index (IHDI) places Argentina and Chile at 45 and 50, while Bolivia sits at 95.

When you use snapshots, you miss data (like the constant increase of their HDI over time)

Data of what? You have yet to cite one credible piece of data that suggests that Bolivia's socialist policies have been anywhere close to the success story of Argentina or Chile's free-market policies.

Probably because that data doesn't exist.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

USA: Argentina should be right wing!!!!!
USSR: No!!! Argentina should be left wing!!!!
Juan Peron:

[Senkaku]

Is it too much to ask for both?

Uh oh, another "libertarian" leftist speaking the quiet parts loud?

Yes, a self-proclaimed tankie's views once again are representative of all leftists

[Senkaku]

When you use snapshots, you miss data (like the constant increase of their HDI over time)

Data of what? You have yet to cite one credible piece of data that suggests that Bolivia's socialist policies have been anywhere close to the success story of Argentina or Chile's free-market policies.

Probably because that data doesn't exist.

Again: I'm begging you to learn more about Latin America so you can realize how foolish you sound talking about the "success story of Argentina's free market policies." I can't take anything you're saying seriously at this point, because it's all so clearly just being pulled out of your ass on the fly.

[Stylan]

Also, Ra, how about we talk about the fact that the bottom 35 countries on the HDI index are all capitalist.

[Enlais]

Bold of you to attack Bolivia's presidential HQ. Have you seen the White House?

Yes, but most people in America don't live below the poverty line now do they? You can afford to be extravagant if the majority of your people are doing well financially, especially if they aren't starving to death in garbage dumps.

At the time America built the White House, 18% of the US population were literal slaves.

[-Ra-]

Data of what? You have yet to cite one credible piece of data that suggests that Bolivia's socialist policies have been anywhere close to the success story of Argentina or Chile's free-market policies.

Probably because that data doesn't exist.

Again: I'm begging you to learn more about Latin America so you can realize how foolish you sound talking about the "success story of Argentina's free market policies." I can't take anything you're saying seriously at this point, because it's all so clearly just being pulled out of your ass on the fly.

Argentina is leagues better than Bolivia or Venezuela by every conceivable metric.

[Stylan]

Again: I'm begging you to learn more about Latin America so you can realize how foolish you sound talking about the "success story of Argentina's free market policies." I can't take anything you're saying seriously at this point, because it's all so clearly just being pulled out of your ass on the fly.

Argentina is leagues better than Bolivia or Venezuela by every conceivable metric.

Ra, how come the bottom 35 countries on the HDI index are capitalist countries?

[-Ra-]

Argentina is leagues better than Bolivia or Venezuela by every conceivable metric.

Ra, how come the bottom 35 countries on the HDI index are capitalist countries?

Because they all have rampant corruption, negligent governments, inadequate infrastructure, warlord based militaries, history of authoritarianism, terrible environments, backward societal practices. They aren't poor because of private property.

[Senkaku]

Again: I'm begging you to learn more about Latin America so you can realize how foolish you sound talking about the "success story of Argentina's free market policies." I can't take anything you're saying seriously at this point, because it's all so clearly just being pulled out of your ass on the fly.

Argentina is leagues better than Bolivia or Venezuela by every conceivable metric.

Cool? And yet describing it as a "free market success story" is still completely divorced from reality. You should probably go do some reading and re-formulate this comparative argument, because right now it's doing you no favors.

[Kowani]

When you use snapshots, you miss data (like the constant increase of their HDI over time)

Data of what? You have yet to cite one credible piece of data that suggests that Bolivia's socialist policies have been anywhere close to the success story of Argentina or Chile's free-market policies.

Probably because that data doesn't exist.

Well. For one thing, Argentina's growth wasn't through free markets, since it...wasn't controlled by people who believed in those for most if its history. And it would seem that the most radically "free market" period of Chilean history wasn't actually economically beneficial.

Unless you're looking for a very specific datapoint on how Bolivia managed to catch up to Chile and Argentina on very specific metrics in 14 years despite these having very different starting points and plans, in which case, I can sell you a unicorn.

[-Ra-]

Argentina is leagues better than Bolivia or Venezuela by every conceivable metric.

Cool? And yet describing it as a "free market success story" is still completely divorced from reality. You should probably go do some reading and re-formulate this comparative argument, because right now it's doing you no favors.

I'm interested in this free-market success story that is divorced from reality. Chile and Argentina are the most successful countries in South America. They also happen to be the most open to business and the least socialist. Argentinian capitalism ain't as good as what we have here, but it's a whole kilometer beter than Bolivia.

I wait for you to make a competent argument, using facts and figures of course.

Yes, but most people in America don't live below the poverty line now do they? You can afford to be extravagant if the majority of your people are doing well financially, especially if they aren't starving to death in garbage dumps.

At the time America built the White House, 18% of the US population were literal slaves.

I also love it when someone interjects with a non-point.

[Stylan]

Ra, how come the bottom 35 countries on the HDI index are capitalist countries?

Because they all have rampant corruption, negligent governments, inadequate infrastructure, warlord based militaries, history of authoritarianism, terrible environments, backward societal practices. They aren't poor because of private property.

Oh ok, so then why can't I say the same for Bolivia or Vuvuzela? Both of those countries have the exact same things, save maybe the warlords.

You just admitted that past struggles (or ongoing struggles) can impact a country financially. Almost all socialist nations have had those. Another win for socialism.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Cool? And yet describing it as a "free market success story" is still completely divorced from reality. You should probably go do some reading and re-formulate this comparative argument, because right now it's doing you no favors.

I'm interested in this free-market success story that is divorced from reality. Chile and Argentina are the most successful countries in South America. They also happen to be the most open to business and the least socialist. Argentinian capitalism ain't as good as what we have here, but it's a whole kilometer beter than Bolivia.

Argentina is a literal economic basket case what are you talking about lol

[-Ra-]

Because they all have rampant corruption, negligent governments, inadequate infrastructure, warlord based militaries, history of authoritarianism, terrible environments, backward societal practices. They aren't poor because of private property.

Oh ok, so then why can't I say the same for Bolivia or Vuvuzela? Both of those countries have the exact same things, save maybe the warlords.

Because those demise of countries like Bolivia and Venezuela is directly brought about because of socialist policies. The issues in the aforementioned African countries have little to do with the fact that private property exists there. In fact, if African countries stopped adhering to nepotistic schemes and gave their citizens the tools to be innovators, business owners and venture capitalists they may be in a better standing. Who would have thought? It only requires you to exercise critical thinking.

[-Ra-]

I'm interested in this free-market success story that is divorced from reality. Chile and Argentina are the most successful countries in South America. They also happen to be the most open to business and the least socialist. Argentinian capitalism ain't as good as what we have here, but it's a whole kilometer beter than Bolivia.

Argentina is a literal economic basket case what are you talking about lol

Laughably false statement made by someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about. It isn't literally a basket case. It has its problems, but it is in a much better standing fiscally and monetarily than the socialist paradise of Bolivia.

[Stylan]

I'm interested in this free-market success story that is divorced from reality. Chile and Argentina are the most successful countries in South America. They also happen to be the most open to business and the least socialist. Argentinian capitalism ain't as good as what we have here, but it's a whole kilometer beter than Bolivia.

Argentina is a literal economic basket case what are you talking about lol

No dude, you don't get it, Argentina is good because the richest make ten billion more, that's called economic success.

Oh ok, so then why can't I say the same for Bolivia or Vuvuzela? Both of those countries have the exact same things, save maybe the warlords.

Because those demise of countries like Bolivia and Venezuela is directly brought about because of socialist policies. The issues in the aforementioned African countries have little to do with the fact that private property exists there. In fact, if African countries stopped adhering to nepotistic schemes and gave their citizens the tools to be innovators, business owners and venture capitalists they may be in a better standing. Who would have thought? It only requires you to exercise critical thinking.

I'm pretty sure they already do, in fact, look at a lot of these countries - tons of stuff is privatized! How come that isn't a failure of capitalism?

Your argument basically boils down to: When socialism fails due to its previous issues, it's socialism's fault. When capitalism fails due to previous issues, it isn't capitalism's fault.

[-Ra-]

Argentina is a literal economic basket case what are you talking about lol

No dude, you don't get it, Argentina is good because the richest make ten billion more, that's called economic success.

Yes

[Washington Resistance Army]

Argentina is a literal economic basket case what are you talking about lol

Laughably false statement made by someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about. It isn't literally a basket case. It has its problems, but it is in a much better standing fiscally and monetarily than the socialist paradise of Bolivia.

"It has its problems" is a fancy way of saying it has a complete economic meltdown every few years. That's not exactly the mark of a good system.

[Senkaku]

Cool? And yet describing it as a "free market success story" is still completely divorced from reality. You should probably go do some reading and re-formulate this comparative argument, because right now it's doing you no favors.

I'm interested in this free-market success story that is divorced from reality.

I'm telling you that that isn't what Argentina is. Frankly, you should be using it as an example of the problems that can result from incompetent state interference in the economy, not as a success story for laissez-faire capitalism.

Chile and Argentina are the most successful countries in South America. They also happen to be the most open to business and the least socialist. Argentinian capitalism ain't as good as what we have here, but it's a whole kilometer beter than Bolivia.

I wait for you to make a competent argument, using facts and figures of course.

On the eve of the First World War, Argentina was the 10th-wealthiest country in the world by per-capita GDP, and up till the 1960s it still outstripped Spain, Austria, Italy, and Japan. Since then, it has fallen behind and suffered repeated economic crises and defaults, as Peronists and military regimes in turn have mismanaged the economy with wasteful spending, upset domestic stability by unleashing state terrorism and social unrest, or launched the country into failed wars. Its leaders have in fact repeatedly resisted making free-market reforms recommended by the IMF, or only done so under extreme duress.

It is, in every way, a truly ridiculous example for you to be using, and the fact you are still insisting on doing so, apparently sublimely ignorant of all of Argentine history, only makes you appear even more foolish.

[Fyrn-Gestreon]

No dude, you don't get it, Argentina is good because the richest make ten billion more, that's called economic success.

Yes

You aren't, like, a leftist doing a psyop, are you? Because I wouldn't be surprised to find out you were

[Exalted Inquellian State]

That starvation does not have to do with capitalistic policies, whereas the Great Famine resulted from communist policies. Democratic Republic of the Congo capitalism is not what we are trying to emulate. European and American capitalism is.

Holy shit, this is the worst defense of capitalism I think I have ever heard .

>Capitalism gives good standard of life
See ! Capitalism is great!
>Capitalism goes to shit
Uhhhh that wasn't REAL capitalism

Well you have no right to attack anyone on this website who calls the USSR "not real communism," because you have just done the same thing, but with capitalism.

Can we agree people who call a failing country having an ideology like "not real X" just serves as backing to them not having good points?

[Stylan]

Yes

You aren't, like, a leftist doing a psyop, are you? Because I wouldn't be surprised to find out you were

He could be a very, very smart troll. Or just a misled dude... we hate to see it.

[Kexholm Karelia]

Yes, but most people in America don't live below the poverty line now do they? You can afford to be extravagant if the majority of your people are doing well financially, especially if they aren't starving to death in garbage dumps.

At the time America built the White House, 18% of the US population were literal slaves.

Does this prove anything?