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Anti-Socialism Thread

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Kowani
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Posts: 26216
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 pm

-Ra- wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Ah, that explains why he devoted his life to writing about how terrible it is, how to destroy it, and how to replace it.


You're joking, right? You have to be joking.

Funnily enough, he actually never talked about how to destroy it or replace it. Marx made a critique of capitalism and then supposed that it would ultimately be overthrown, but he never actually specified how it would be overthrown or what a communist society would look like.

Yeah this is a lie.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

Take nothing I say seriously, unless there is a link.
Currently Reading: The Rights of Man (T. Paine)

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45938
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:56 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Like, the entire former Soviet Union.


Man the soviet union was great, heres a book that details how amazing it was for a world superpower to be communist. Its a must-read for every communist who wants to experience the glory of the USSR at its peak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago


It's a pretty objective fact that the entire former USSR barring the Baltic states (which became glorified American puppets) and Belarus (which maintained and still maintains Soviet era systems) experienced a sharp drop in quality of life across the board after the transition to capitalism.
Leaning towards Agrarian State Socialism, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

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Disgraces
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Posts: 366
Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Disgraces » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:57 pm

Duvniask wrote:a painfully inadequate definition of the term.

Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production though
What is free choice compared to life?

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Kowani
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Posts: 26216
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:59 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
Man the soviet union was great, heres a book that details how amazing it was for a world superpower to be communist. Its a must-read for every communist who wants to experience the glory of the USSR at its peak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago


It's a pretty objective fact that the entire former USSR barring the Baltic states (which became glorified American puppets) and Belarus (which maintained and still maintains Soviet era systems) experienced a sharp drop in quality of life across the board after the transition to capitalism.

Based WRA embracing facts.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

Take nothing I say seriously, unless there is a link.
Currently Reading: The Rights of Man (T. Paine)

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:03 pm

Like, real talk, I'm not really a fan of socialism myself but the explicit bias of the OP is really something. I mean at most I could say socialism is naive, idealistic, and that I'm at best skeptical of it's promises but it's not like it's some grand, evil thing that needs to be crushed and destroyed wherever it's found.

That would be Fascism.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:04 pm

Kowani wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
It's a pretty objective fact that the entire former USSR barring the Baltic states (which became glorified American puppets) and Belarus (which maintained and still maintains Soviet era systems) experienced a sharp drop in quality of life across the board after the transition to capitalism.

Based WRA embracing facts.


Tbh as of late I've been drifting more towards a non-Marxian state socialism as my preferred economic system. The pandemic has just shattered any remaining love or support I have for the market.
Leaning towards Agrarian State Socialism, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

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Alternamerica
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Founded: Apr 11, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Alternamerica » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:05 pm

Disgraces wrote:
Duvniask wrote:a painfully inadequate definition of the term.

Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production though


No. Socialism is whatever I don't like because it's different from what I grew up thinking
What if America, but with Social Democracy & Eisenhower worship? Medicare For All, North American Highspeed Rail, and $1 Trillion military budget because we're the best country. CIA love Teddy Roosevelt and the environment enough to torture Oil executives. All democracies, including leftists, must be protected. We waterboard UN delegates until they sign the GND
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Kiu Ghesik
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Founded: Aug 25, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kiu Ghesik » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:07 pm

Alternamerica wrote:
Disgraces wrote:Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production though


No. Socialism is whatever I don't like because it's different from what I grew up thinking

szochiyalizm is whegh the gubamintt dowes stughph
andde whegbn it dus moar stughffpf
izz gobmbnunuismsm
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Kowani
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Posts: 26216
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:08 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:Based WRA embracing facts.


Tbh as of late I've been drifting more towards a non-Marxian state socialism as my preferred economic system. The pandemic has just shattered any remaining love or support I have for the market.

comrade
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

Take nothing I say seriously, unless there is a link.
Currently Reading: The Rights of Man (T. Paine)

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Disgraces
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Posts: 366
Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Disgraces » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:11 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Alternamerica wrote:
No. Socialism is whatever I don't like because it's different from what I grew up thinking

szochiyalizm is whegh the gubamintt dowes stughph
andde whegbn it dus moar stughffpf
izz gobmbnunuismsm

economic liberals in a nutshell
What is free choice compared to life?

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Alternamerica
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Posts: 428
Founded: Apr 11, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Alternamerica » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:14 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Alternamerica wrote:
No. Socialism is whatever I don't like because it's different from what I grew up thinking

szochiyalizm is whegh the gubamintt dowes stughph
andde whegbn it dus moar stughffpf
izz gobmbnunuismsm


"We should be Socialist like Finland"
"Finland isn't Socialist, it's a Capitalist Market with strong welfare"
"Then lets adopt their policies"
"No! That's socialism!"
What if America, but with Social Democracy & Eisenhower worship? Medicare For All, North American Highspeed Rail, and $1 Trillion military budget because we're the best country. CIA love Teddy Roosevelt and the environment enough to torture Oil executives. All democracies, including leftists, must be protected. We waterboard UN delegates until they sign the GND
30% IRL views, 70% joke

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Posts: 3695
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:14 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:Based WRA embracing facts.


Tbh as of late I've been drifting more towards a non-Marxian state socialism as my preferred economic system. The pandemic has just shattered any remaining love or support I have for the market.


The market works just fine when it's actually being regulated by the government, and when it's not anyone who doesn't belong to the upper class suffers. The US has seen both of these examples throughout it's history. It's time we go back the former and make sure it stays this time.

Companies need to mind their place, and the rich need to stay out of politics.
Last edited by Trollzyn the Infinite on Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
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Sanghyeok
Minister
 
Posts: 2622
Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:14 pm

Kowani wrote:comrade


I wonder how many people will lose their faith in capitalism due to this pandemic, as their eyes are opened to the horrors and inequalities they live in.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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The Marlborough
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Posts: 722
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:15 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Like, the entire former Soviet Union.


Man the soviet union was great, heres a book that details how amazing it was for a world superpower to be communist. Its a must-read for every communist who wants to experience the glory of the USSR at its peak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Solzhenitsyn himself noted how horrendous the post-Soviet period was for people's quality of life; he even refused Russia's highest honour because he thought it would be wrong to be given such a prestigious decoration at such a low point in the country's history. He just didn't advocate for the return of the Soviet Union like some nostalgists want(ed) because he considered both periods to be equally bad but for different reasons.

Also Solzhenitsyn didn't like the West much either, especially the US which he described as too materialistic, too legalistic, too weak and too free (especially its press).
Last edited by The Marlborough on Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sanghyeok
Minister
 
Posts: 2622
Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:16 pm

Alternamerica wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:szochiyalizm is whegh the gubamintt dowes stughph
andde whegbn it dus moar stughffpf
izz gobmbnunuismsm


"We should be Socialist like Finland"
"Finland isn't Socialist, it's a Capitalist Market with strong welfare"
"Then lets adopt their policies"
"No! That's socialism!"


"Let's help developing countries with foreign aid"
"No, we need to help our own country"
"Then, let's try to help our own people with welfare"
"No, that's socialism!"

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26216
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:18 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Like, real talk, I'm not really a fan of socialism myself but the explicit bias of the OP is really something. I mean at most I could say socialism is naive, idealistic, and that I'm at best skeptical of it's promises but it's not like it's some grand, evil thing that needs to be crushed and destroyed wherever it's found.

That would be Fascism.

Wait 'till GHK gets here.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tbh as of late I've been drifting more towards a non-Marxian state socialism as my preferred economic system. The pandemic has just shattered any remaining love or support I have for the market.


The market works just fine when it's actually being regulated by the government, and when it's not anyone who doesn't belong to the upper class suffers. The US has seen both of these examples throughout it's history. It's time we go back the former and make sure it stays this time.

Companies need to mind their place, and the rich need to stay out of politics.

I have a theory that that is not really sustainable long-term.

Sanghyeok wrote:
Kowani wrote:comrade


I wonder how many people will lose their faith in capitalism due to this pandemic, as their eyes are opened to the horrors and inequalities they live in.

I have no clue-the astroturfing and media bubbles we live in make me somewhat unsure about the prospects of that.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

Take nothing I say seriously, unless there is a link.
Currently Reading: The Rights of Man (T. Paine)

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Trollzyn the Infinite
Senator
 
Posts: 3695
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:21 pm

Kowani wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Like, real talk, I'm not really a fan of socialism myself but the explicit bias of the OP is really something. I mean at most I could say socialism is naive, idealistic, and that I'm at best skeptical of it's promises but it's not like it's some grand, evil thing that needs to be crushed and destroyed wherever it's found.

That would be Fascism.

Wait 'till GHK gets here.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The market works just fine when it's actually being regulated by the government, and when it's not anyone who doesn't belong to the upper class suffers. The US has seen both of these examples throughout it's history. It's time we go back the former and make sure it stays this time.

Companies need to mind their place, and the rich need to stay out of politics.

I have a theory that that is not really sustainable long-term.

Sanghyeok wrote:
I wonder how many people will lose their faith in capitalism due to this pandemic, as their eyes are opened to the horrors and inequalities they live in.

I have no clue-the astroturfing and media bubbles we live in make me somewhat unsure about the prospects of that.


I used to like GHK for his heavy anti-China stance but then he outed himself as a Trumper without realizing Xi is exactly what Trump wishes he was and is trying to be but is too stupid to become.

"Dictators for thee, not for me!" I guess.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26216
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:28 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wait 'till GHK gets here.

I have a theory that that is not really sustainable long-term.


I have no clue-the astroturfing and media bubbles we live in make me somewhat unsure about the prospects of that.


I used to like GHK for his heavy anti-China stance but then he outed himself as a Trumper without realizing Xi is exactly what Trump wishes he was and is trying to be but is too stupid to become.

"Dictators for thee, not for me!" I guess.

Such is the downside of watching rhetoric alone.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

Take nothing I say seriously, unless there is a link.
Currently Reading: The Rights of Man (T. Paine)

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Trollzyn the Infinite
Senator
 
Posts: 3695
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:30 pm

Kowani wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
I used to like GHK for his heavy anti-China stance but then he outed himself as a Trumper without realizing Xi is exactly what Trump wishes he was and is trying to be but is too stupid to become.

"Dictators for thee, not for me!" I guess.

Such is the downside of watching rhetoric alone.


Some days it feels like everybody but me is a hypocrite, I swear.

Although truth be told I'm probably a hypocrite without realizing it. Maybe deep down we're all hypocrites.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

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Disgraces
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 366
Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Disgraces » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:33 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Like, real talk, I'm not really a fan of socialism myself but the explicit bias of the OP is really something. I mean at most I could say socialism is naive, idealistic, and that I'm at best skeptical of it's promises but it's not like it's some grand, evil thing that needs to be crushed and destroyed wherever it's found.

That would be Fascism.

Hold on, you say fascism needs to be destroyed but you're a third positionist?
What is free choice compared to life?

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Grand Caledonia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 23
Founded: Aug 19, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Grand Caledonia » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:33 pm

I left this thread thinking, "I'll be back in a few hours." A few hours later, and the page literally exploded with activity.

The OP makes it quite clear where their stance is regarding socialism,

Does socialism still present a threat to the world? To your country? Not remotely. Not sure what sort of bogeyman the OP is thinking of, but there isn't some small group of socialist elites influencing every facet of society and bending it to their will for personal power and gain while ignoring the impending climate crisis. There is, however, a small group of capitalist elites influencing every facet of society and bending it to their will for personal power and gain while ignoring the impending climate crisis.

While in my country, answer is also no. It could use quite a lot more actual socialism (though I'm sure some of our southern neighbours might think we are some hippie socialist hellhole, while we're about as neoliberal economically as most other countries on Earth.)

Should liberals and conservatives do more to square their differences and rally against socialist tides, wherever they may spring up? Honestly no. They actually tend to do just that whenever socialist or progressive ideas or policy comes up (just look at American Corporate Democrats and Republicans teaming up against any mildly-left leaning figures like Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for an example).

At what point is armed resistance against socialism called for? Nope. Armed resistance for socialism on the other hand might become inevitable :idea: (PS. In no way advocating for violence to be clear)
Last edited by Grand Caledonia on Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Picairn
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Posts: 1496
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:35 pm

The Marlborough wrote:Solzhenitsyn himself noted how horrendous the post-Soviet period was for people's quality of life; he even refused Russia's highest honour because he thought it would be wrong to be given such a prestigious decoration at such a low point in the country's history. He just didn't advocate for the return of the Soviet Union like some nostalgists want(ed) because he considered both periods to be equally bad but for different reasons.

Also Solzhenitsyn didn't like the West much either, especially the US which he described as too materialistic, too legalistic, too weak and too free (especially its press).

Based, sane Solzhenitsyn. I'm heavily against Soviet authoritarianism but shock therapy wrecked it to shreds.
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Samicana
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: May 02, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Samicana » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:39 pm

Deleting my message would be suppressing my political freedoms.

Socialism is cool.

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Punished UMN
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:44 pm

-Ra- wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Like, the entire former Soviet Union.

:rofl:

virtually the entire Soviet Union has lower life expectancy and quality of life now than it did in 1989.
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Suriyanakhon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 195
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:50 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:Based WRA embracing facts.


Tbh as of late I've been drifting more towards a non-Marxian state socialism as my preferred economic system. The pandemic has just shattered any remaining love or support I have for the market.


That's definitely understandable. For me, it was a combination of coronavirus and climate change, along with massive wealth inequity. It's hard to like the market when you struggle to pay your medical bills while there's a class of billionaires who have more money than what they will ever know what to do with.
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