NationStates

Valrifell wrote:

Ellbonnia wrote:Can you imagine that there was a point in time not so long ago where news like this would actually horrify us, but nowadays it's to be expected in this political climate?

This was absolutely not expected.

Did you seriously think these insane anti-government self-appointed militias would not use their weapons to pursue their twisted sense of freedom? This was bound to happen eventually.

"A plot to overthrow the government..." Cool! "...by a fascist militia." Fuck that!

It's like hearing "we're all going to get high tonight ... on benadryl", lot of whiplash, initial excitement followed by extreme dismay.

Seriously though, all joking aside, right-wing terrorism is a cancer that needs to be dealt with.

Loben III wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Not in a good way though.

Not like she’s loved herebtbh.

Right, still not justifiable to attempt to kidnap her. *shrug*

San Lumen wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
This is literally a lie San Lumen. He's condemned White supremacists repeatedly and without weasel words.

No he did not.

He literally did it on Video. You can go google "Trump Condemns Neo Nazis." And get videos of him saying it.

No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Ifreann wrote:

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:It was a militia, but this sounds like a state party. So, their goal was kidnap her, hold a Kangaroo court, and kill her? Then what? The US would invade Michigan and install military rule even if all went smooth.

Then, I'm guessing, they would expect to see other militias following their example and a far-right revolution sweeping the country. They would expect Trump to order the military to support them in crushing any resistance. They would expect to be hailed forever as heroes of America.

Alright, let's look at their chances
Kidnap the governor: 20% maybe
Keep her long enough to try: 90%
Convict of charges: 95%
Kill her:95%
Get other militias to rise up: 0.1%
Get Trump to help them:0.1%
Win against all other forces: 1%
Their chances are about two in a billion. Long shot.

Ellbonnia wrote:

Valrifell wrote:
This was absolutely not expected.

Did you seriously think these insane anti-government self-appointed militias would not use their weapons to pursue their twisted sense of freedom? This was bound to happen eventually.

My prediction Trump issues pardons arrest the executive branch of Michigan and empowers militias to lead the government on a reconstruction basis until after the election.
In an unrelated matter Michigan votes 75% for Trump with a 10% turnout.

https://abc7ny.com/6867073/?ex_cid=TA_W ... MS12x4u4yI

13 people total have now been charged

Greed and Death wrote:

Ellbonnia wrote:
Did you seriously think these insane anti-government self-appointed militias would not use their weapons to pursue their twisted sense of freedom? This was bound to happen eventually.

My prediction Trump issues pardons arrest the executive branch of Michigan and empowers militias to lead the government on a reconstruction basis until after the election.
In an unrelated matter Michigan votes 75% for Trump with a 10% turnout.

Nah, 99.9% for Trump with 99.99% turnout. It's the only way for glorious leader.

San Lumen wrote:

Odinburgh wrote:I am just disgusted what far right wing radicals have come to and what they will do in the name of Trump.

When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

That's what happens when people legitimately hate each other.

San Lumen wrote:It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Hostile nations have been trying to instill civil war tendencies in the USA to destroy it from within, particularly Russia and China. They'll support any political group, as long as it destabilizes American societies. Americans have lost their unity, so they are eager to fight each other for "socialism", "social justice", "anarchism", "god-emperor trump", "XXX racial cause" and other bullshit divisive ideas. Anything to keep the chaos going.

San Lumen wrote:

Odinburgh wrote:I am just disgusted what far right wing radicals have come to and what they will do in the name of Trump.

When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qD47QFFkTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pd62nU4CWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ugzTmFeHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoRZaYU_Sm4
He's condemned it, whether you believe he's racist or not, he has spoke several times with several different speeches about several different things that and I quote, "Racism is evil". You don't even need to be right-wing to think that he's condemned racism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks_zkFhL4B4 Oh look, he's condemned violence, too.

-Ocelot- wrote:

San Lumen wrote:It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Hostile nations have been trying to instill civil war tendencies in the USA to destroy it from within, particularly Russia and China. They'll support any political group, as long as it destabilizes American societies. Americans have lost their unity, so they are eager to fight each other for "socialism", "social justice", "anarchism", "god-emperor trump", "XXX racial cause" and other bullshit divisive ideas. Anything to keep the chaos going.

They have, it's in their interest to have a divided and unstable United States. And more and more we've been happy to oblige them.

San Lumen wrote:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... n-governor

The FBI says it thwarted what it described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday. Not only did they plan to kidnap her but they also planned to hold a kangaroo court session and then kill her.

It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Nowhere in either article does it say these right-wing terrorists are white supremacists, and even if they are, they are universally considered fringe and roundly denounced even by conservatives and Republicans. White supremacists may pose a physical threat to liberals, leftists, and minorities alike, but literally no one is going to vote for them and no one has. Also, they are not the only violent racists in town. BLM is racist, violent, and increasingly mainstream and normalized by a liberal establishment too terrified to stand up to them. Lastly, liberals and leftists who value big government are more likely to simply whine and throw a tantrum when things don't go their way, whereas conservatives and rightists who value individual responsibility are more likely to take matters into their own hands, resulting in most terror attacks being committed by right-wing folk and most riots occurring among the Left. That's my take anyway.

Would I be wrong to characterize this militia as anarchist? Because that's what an anti-government extremist is.

EDIT: We must also be careful not to lump in the peaceful militias such as the ones defending homes and businesses from rioters and looters in Kenosha from actual terrorists.

San Lumen wrote:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... n-governor

The FBI says it thwarted what it described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday. Not only did they plan to kidnap her but they also planned to hold a kangaroo court session and then kill her.

It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Notably, it was one of the militia who agreed to be an informant for the FBI, and allowed this plot to be foiled. Reaching out the militia for help was a bad idea (i mean, good for us and society, bad for the conspirators).

Brandon Caserta, one of the ringleaders, appears to be an anarchist anti-fascist who viewed Whitmer as fascist. He's got videos out there with an anarchist flag in the background and shittalking the police.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/statu ... 8339819520

I don't know much about the others yet.

San Lumen wrote:

Odinburgh wrote:I am just disgusted what far right wing radicals have come to and what they will do in the name of Trump.

When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

Just worried he will try a coup attempt if Trump loses the election. It also distresses me. Anti-left hate sentiment from the right does nothing. Whatever happened of honestly disagreeing but no we have this guy Trump trying to turn it into his playground like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises.

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:

San Lumen wrote:https://www.wlns.com/top-stories/attorney-general-dana-nessel-to-hold-joint-announcement-today/

They not only planned to kidnap her but hold a kangaroo court session in Wisconsin and then kill her. This gets more and more terrifying.

it was apparently a massive plot.

It was a militia, but this sounds like a state party. So, their goal was kidnap her, hold a Kangaroo court, and kill her? Then what? The US would invade Michigan and install military rule even if all went smooth.

Doubtful. Michigan, like the federal government, has a chain of succession. It is a stable state of 10 million people with its own military perfectly capable of restoring order if necesary. A few loonies out in the middle of nowhere plotting aint going to force a military occupation.

Besides if the US garrisoned more besides the airbase the state economy wouldnt suck so much. Alas those subsidies are only for texas/california/florida/virginia

Galloism wrote:

San Lumen wrote:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... n-governor

The FBI says it thwarted what it described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday. Not only did they plan to kidnap her but they also planned to hold a kangaroo court session and then kill her.

It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Notably, it was one of the militia who agreed to be an informant for the FBI, and allowed this plot to be foiled. Reaching out the militia for help was a bad idea (i mean, good for us and society, bad for the conspirators).

Brandon Caserta, one of the ringleaders, appears to be an anarchist anti-fascist who viewed Whitmer as fascist. He's got videos out there with an anarchist flag in the background and shittalking the police.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/statu ... 8339819520

I don't know much about the others yet.

interesting that one of them reached out to the FBI via a change of heart. We might be having a very different conversation right now if they had not.

Odinburgh wrote:

San Lumen wrote:When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

Just worried he will try a coup attempt if Trump loses the election. It also distresses me. Anti-left hate sentiment from the right does nothing. Whatever happened of honestly disagreeing but no we have this guy Trump trying to turn it into his playground like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises.

And what party made Trump a fool for not promising to respect the results of the election, but when he won, kept claiming that it was unfair and we need to abolish the electoral college? Any particular political group you thinking about there?

Flip a coin to find out if this is one of those plots the FBI hatched and financed itself in the first place.

San Lumen wrote:

Galloism wrote:Notably, it was one of the militia who agreed to be an informant for the FBI, and allowed this plot to be foiled. Reaching out the militia for help was a bad idea (i mean, good for us and society, bad for the conspirators).

Brandon Caserta, one of the ringleaders, appears to be an anarchist anti-fascist who viewed Whitmer as fascist. He's got videos out there with an anarchist flag in the background and shittalking the police.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/statu ... 8339819520

I don't know much about the others yet.

interesting that one of them reached out to the FBI via a change of heart. We might be having a very different conversation right now if they had not.

Well, not sure how FBI got ahold of CHS-1 (that's what they refer to him/her as), but CHS-1 was apparently somehow involved with the kidnap governors group. Then the kidnap governors group reached out to the militia group for help, which contained another FBI informant, labeled CHS-2.

This group apparently agreed to the plan, but with an informant on both sides, this plan was going to be busted. And good thing the FBI infiltrates these groups.

I'm reading the affidvait.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4792371 ... from_embed

Galloism wrote:

San Lumen wrote:interesting that one of them reached out to the FBI via a change of heart. We might be having a very different conversation right now if they had not.

Well, not sure how FBI got ahold of CHS-1 (that's what they refer to him/her as), but CHS-1 was apparently somehow involved with the kidnap governors group. Then the kidnap governors group reached out to the militia group for help, which contained another FBI informant, labeled CHS-2.

This group apparently agreed to the plan, but with an informant on both sides, this plan was going to be busted. And good thing the FBI infiltrates these groups.

I'm reading the affidvait.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4792371 ... from_embed

If they hadn't things might have been very different.

San Lumen wrote:

Odinburgh wrote:I am just disgusted what far right wing radicals have come to and what they will do in the name of Trump.

When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

That is a naked lie and you know it.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

San Lumen wrote:No he did not.

He literally did it on Video. You can go google "Trump Condemns Neo Nazis." And get videos of him saying it.

No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Here's the link.

Elevanos wrote:

San Lumen wrote:When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qD47QFFkTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pd62nU4CWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ugzTmFeHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoRZaYU_Sm4
He's condemned it, whether you believe he's racist or not, he has spoke several times with several different speeches about several different things that and I quote, "Racism is evil". You don't even need to be right-wing to think that he's condemned racism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks_zkFhL4B4 Oh look, he's condemned violence, too.

Ninja'd.

Galloism wrote:

San Lumen wrote:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... n-governor

The FBI says it thwarted what it described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday. Not only did they plan to kidnap her but they also planned to hold a kangaroo court session and then kill her.

It's terrifying that something like this was in planning stages. What has America come too? People say militias and white supremacists aren't a threat well here is your proof. I wonder if their are other plots like this out there being investigated.

Your thoughts NSG?

Notably, it was one of the militia who agreed to be an informant for the FBI, and allowed this plot to be foiled. Reaching out the militia for help was a bad idea (i mean, good for us and society, bad for the conspirators).

Brandon Caserta, one of the ringleaders, appears to be an anarchist anti-fascist who viewed Whitmer as fascist. He's got videos out there with an anarchist flag in the background and shittalking the police.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/statu ... 8339819520

I don't know much about the others yet.

So this "right-wing" militia is actually far-left Antifa? Plot twist.

Hey remember that guy in the other thread about racism who said right wing terror was a "non issue?"

It's a non issue in the same way as Hurricane Delta is.

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:

San Lumen wrote:When you have a president who refuses to condemn white supremacy and incites violence it’s not surprising. I wouldn’t be shocked to see more things like this in the future and it distresses me to say that.

That is a naked lie and you know it.

"Stand back and stand by proud boys."

-Trump when asked to condemn white supremacy

I'm not quite yet convinced that any of this happened. It is probably a false flag operation designed to get this governor's political opponents detained or into disarray. And if it even did happen, this Governor must've done something to upset too many people as to inspire revolts. This incident is virtually unheard of in other states in other years of governing. I'd think Ralph Northam would be targeted before Whitmer. He is a Gun Grabber which is usually a grave mistake in American politics.