Greece's Golden Dawn Falls to Leaden Dusk

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Good. I don't care if they'll come back or if this is "against freedom". At least the courts stood their ground.

[Loben III]

Because you've already given people the freedom to pursue tools to oppress others, because as noticed Greece is oppressing the asshole fascists.

That's the point you present it as...

Freedom is important.
Fascists would end freedom if they could.

Therefore, we must curtail the freedom of Fascists.

But that final line does not follow the first. Because you've just done the exact same thing they would do. Not to mention that just because you outlaw the name doesn't make them go away.

No, I have not done the same thing fascists would do. Whereas fascists would endanger the freedom of the bulk or entirety of the nation in the broadest sense possible, here Greece is removing the possibility of that happening by targeting an extremely narrow group of people in a comparatively precise way.

Your counterargument is bunk in the sense that "we shouldn't let fascists run for office" is not equivocal to "we shouldn't let anyone outside our niche party hold office".

The first and final lines are consistent with the second, is the whole point. To preserve the freedom of the nation in the long-con, some toes may have to be stepped on in the now.

This is going to be wonderful when it comes back to bite you.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Weren't you supporting Trump's calling for Antifa and BLM to be declared terrorists?

Antifa is a political party now? No. Antifa is literally just a mob that attacks people, no real political apparatus attached, even though the attacks were politically motivated.

BLM no. They're cringy grifters. But they're mostly a legitimate political thing. They deserve incessant mockery until they join the CPUSA in the laughing stock corner of politics.

Is that a yes or no?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Beating Golden Dawn was only half the battle. Xenophobia is widespread in Greek society and has a history spanning thousands of years, and it seems like anyone who isn't a western European is in danger from it, from Africans to Syrians to Macedonians to Albanians to Turks.

[Loben III]

Beating Golden Dawn was only half the battle. Xenophobia is widespread in Greek society and has a history spanning thousands of years, and it seems like anyone who isn't a western European is in danger from it, from Africans to Syrians to Macedonians to Albanians to Turks.

I wonder why given how many times their existence came under threat from outsiders.

[Valrifell]

No, I have not done the same thing fascists would do. Whereas fascists would endanger the freedom of the bulk or entirety of the nation in the broadest sense possible, here Greece is removing the possibility of that happening by targeting an extremely narrow group of people in a comparatively precise way.

Your counterargument is bunk in the sense that "we shouldn't let fascists run for office" is not equivocal to "we shouldn't let anyone outside our niche party hold office".

The first and final lines are consistent with the second, is the whole point. To preserve the freedom of the nation in the long-con, some toes may have to be stepped on in the now.

This is going to be wonderful when it comes back to bite you.

It can't come back to bite me if fascists are barred from running - are you even paying attention. And I can't be labelled a fascist because I love freedom too much.

[Valrifell]

Beating Golden Dawn was only half the battle. Xenophobia is widespread in Greek society and has a history spanning thousands of years, and it seems like anyone who isn't a western European is in danger from it, from Africans to Syrians to Macedonians to Albanians to Turks.

I wonder why given how many times their existence came under threat from outsiders.

Those fucking Venetians...

[Punished UMN]

Just take the easy way out like I do: I want to bar fascists from holding office because I don't like their policy positions and I don't particularly care enough about whether my democracy is liberal enough to allow all opinions to be expressed freely. Some opinions should be verboten because they are hostile and dangerous.

[Valrifell]

Just take the easy way out like I do: I want to bar fascists from holding office because I don't like their policy positions and I don't particularly care enough about whether my democracy is liberal enough to allow all opinions to be expressed freely. Some opinions should be verboten because they are hostile and dangerous.

Fair enough

[Loben III]

I wonder why given how many times their existence came under threat from outsiders.

Those fucking Venetians...

Germans, the Turks

Its a rather odd that you don’t see the cause and effect.

[Loben III]

This is going to be wonderful when it comes back to bite you.

It can't come back to bite me if fascists are barred from running - are you even paying attention. And I can't be labelled a fascist because I love freedom too much.

Who said anything about gaining power? Do you honestly think the only people with the power to hurt you are elected officials?

[Valrifell]

Those fucking Venetians...

Germans, the Turks

Its a rather odd that you don’t see the cause and effect.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. We as a society collectively agreed that holding grudges from over a century ago is bad, and I think getting bitter at an entire color of people because of a defunct Middle Eastern Empire is particularly in poor taste.

[Punished UMN]

It can't come back to bite me if fascists are barred from running - are you even paying attention. And I can't be labelled a fascist because I love freedom too much.

Who said anything about gaining power? Do you honestly think the only people with the power to hurt you are elected officials?

Cool, we can throw fascists in jail then.

[Valrifell]

It can't come back to bite me if fascists are barred from running - are you even paying attention. And I can't be labelled a fascist because I love freedom too much.

Who said anything about gaining power? Do you honestly think the only people with the power to hurt you are elected officials?

What kind of conversation are you under the impression we're having? The terms of this conversation were implicitly set around electoral politics, given the context of the thread.

[Loben III]

Who said anything about gaining power? Do you honestly think the only people with the power to hurt you are elected officials?

Cool, we can throw fascists in jail then.

So long as we throw socialists and communists in the same cell block.

[Punished UMN]

Cool, we can throw fascists in jail then.

So long as we throw socialists and communists in the same cell block.

No.

[Diarcesia]

Fascism should never fashionable.

[Loben III]

Who said anything about gaining power? Do you honestly think the only people with the power to hurt you are elected officials?

What kind of conversation are you under the impression we're having? The terms of this conversation were implicitly set around electoral politics, given the context of the thread.

Taking it to the logical conclusion that despite of this judgement the people who share golden dawns views will do as they please.

[Punished UMN]

What kind of conversation are you under the impression we're having? The terms of this conversation were implicitly set around electoral politics, given the context of the thread.

Taking it to the logical conclusion that despite of this judgement the people who share golden dawns views will do as they please.

Which is why prisons exist.

[Loben III]

So long as we throw socialists and communists in the same cell block.

No.

Ah yes the good old “we should jail fascists but not other people with ideologies that have a history of oppressing people, limiting freedoms under dubious pretenses and enslaved a good chunk of Europe because I agree with them” excuse.

[Picairn]

Just take the easy way out like I do: I want to bar fascists from holding office because I don't like their policy positions and I don't particularly care enough about whether my democracy is liberal enough to allow all opinions to be expressed freely. Some opinions should be verboten because they are hostile and dangerous.

If anything, barring fascist parties from holding office may actually create a safer environment for freedom and democracy to thrive, free from hostile and dangerous rhetoric that can brainwash the masses.

[Valrifell]

What kind of conversation are you under the impression we're having? The terms of this conversation were implicitly set around electoral politics, given the context of the thread.

Taking it to the logical conclusion that despite of this judgement the people who share golden dawns views will do as they please.

If the implication is that they'll keep doing crime then they'll be arrested. If the implication is that they'll just come back, they'll be banned again.

[Loben III]

Taking it to the logical conclusion that despite of this judgement the people who share golden dawns views will do as they please.

Which is why prisons exist.

And what crime are they committing?

[Punished UMN]

No.

Ah yes the good old “we should jail fascists but not other people with ideologies that have a history of oppressing people, limiting freedoms under dubious pretenses and enslaved a good chunk of Europe because I agree with them” excuse.

You realize the reason Golden Dawn was banned wasn't its ideology, right? It was banned because its leaders were found to have been involved in organizing political assassinations.

[Valrifell]

No.

Ah yes the good old “we should jail fascists but not other people with ideologies that have a history of oppressing people, limiting freedoms under dubious pretenses and enslaved a good chunk of Europe because I agree with them” excuse.

Uh, actually the distinction is that communism is based and bread-pilled and anything in the right is stale and normie.