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Most controversial person in history

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The Blaatschapen
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Most controversial person in history

Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:31 am

Now, some people in history are decidedly evil like Hitler (though there always people who disagree with him being evil, obviously). But this is not about clearly evil people.

This is about people who had a huge impact on the world. But the end result is decidedly mixed.

My vote for most controversial person, whose impact on the world was huge, is naturally a scientist. Science can be harnessed for both good and evil acts. And the following scientist's inventions most definitely are responsible for good and evil acts.

My choice is Fritz Haber. Fritz Haber is the chemist in the Haber-Bosch process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process His companion Carl Bosch was more the engineer, the one who made the process scalable.

Now this process is huge. It prolonged World War I. Because binding nitrogen from the air was crucial for making explosives. On the other hand, it created synthetic fertilizer. Which made our agricultural output increase by leaps and bounds. Thus Haber is responsible for a great amount of lives in the world. But modern explosives are responsible for a great amount of deaths. This process alone easily puts him down as both hugely influential, and hugely controversial.

Why not Carl Bosch his companion? Or Robert Le Rossignol his assistant?

There is one more invention. Poison gas. Chlorine gas was invented by him during/for World War I. And in the 1920s, Zyklon A.... mostly famous for being the predecessor for Zyklon B, which was used in the death camps.... Interestingly enough, Fritz Haber was born jewish (though he converted later in life) and several family members died in the camps.

sources (other than wikipedia: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-13015210 )

Ah, but what say you NSG? Which person had a huge impact on life on earth, but the end result being mixed? Gavrilo Prinzip? J. Robert Oppenheimer?
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Phaenix
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Postby Phaenix » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:36 am

I'd say one of the most controversial people in history was Augustus Octavian. He not only was the first Roman emperor, he also greatly increased borders of the Imperium Romaniae, allowing Roman influence to spread far and wide. Yet by expanding the Empire, Augustus greatly increased the amount of slaves captured, historic sites destroyed, and culture assimilated. Personally, I believe the order the Empire brought outweighed the costs, but I still recognize that many may think of Augustus as a destroyer of cultures.
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Sunson
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sunson » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:38 am

Genghis Khan, maybe?

Overran half the world, depopulated entire cities, but also the father of modern diplomacy (with its diplomatic immunity).

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Indian Empire
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Postby Indian Empire » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:38 am

what about Francis Galton, the guy who invented and coined the term "Eugenics"? And of course that lead to this becoming an element of naziism & fascism. To make things worse, the Brits knighted the guy!
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The Emirate of The Emirate
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Emirate of The Emirate » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:42 am

john christie
he was a british murderer
the police accused his neigbor
and that, kids is why capital punishment is banned in the uk
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Honeydewistania
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:44 am

Alfred Nobel. Caused many deaths but he felt guilty and gives money to smart people. No ones really raving about how bad/good he is though.
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Mathuvan Union
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:46 am

Albert Einstein.
caused the deaths of millions in his work with the Atomic Bomb.
Last edited by Mathuvan Union on Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
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Autumn Wind
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Autumn Wind » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:52 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:Albert Einstein.
caused the deaths of millions in his work with the Atomic Bomb.


Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.
Last edited by Autumn Wind on Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:54 am

Christopher Columbus. Yes he was not the first to the New World but he was the one that created sustained contact that led to trade and a doubling of carrying capacity of the world. You do not see that again until the the industrial revolution and even then its not tied to one person. Also while he was an ass to the natives much of what people lay before him is tied to other people or pretty much the norm for late medieval Spain.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:54 am

From Philosophy in particular, Nietzsche and Heidegger are probably two of the most controversial philosophers of the past couple of centuries.

Nietzsche has been accused (wrongly) of being a proto-Nazi, enabling the Nazis with his theories (which were wrongly interpreted by the Nazis via the meddling of Nietzsche's sister Elisabeth). Nietzsche's views on women etc are controversial however, no misinterpretation needed.

Heidegger is a different kettle of fish, albeit still involving a Nazi angle. Heidegger was a Nazi. He had a major hand in ousting several of his Jewish colleagues from the University where he worked, including his own mentor Edmund Husserl. Heidegger said nothing post-war about his Nazi status, much less an apology.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:54 am

Autumn Wind wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Albert Einstein.
caused the deaths of millions in his work with the Atomic Bomb.


Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.


Oh! That reminds me. Oppenheimer.
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Mathuvan Union
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:54 am

Autumn Wind wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Albert Einstein.
caused the deaths of millions in his work with the Atomic Bomb.


Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.

Millions did die because of the aftermath, he helped with some of the research. I still stand true.
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:56 am

The New California Republic wrote:From Philosophy in particular, Nietzsche and Heidegger are probably two of the most controversial philosophers of the past couple of centuries.

Nietzsche has been accused (wrongly) of being a proto-Nazi, enabling the Nazis with his theories (which were wrongly interpreted by the Nazis via the meddling of Nietzsche's sister Elisabeth). Nietzsche's views on women etc are controversial however, no misinterpretation needed.

Heidegger is a different kettle of fish, albeit still involving a Nazi angle. Heidegger was a Nazi. He had a major hand in ousting several of his Jewish colleagues from the University where he worked, including his own mentor Edmund Husserl. Heidegger said nothing post-war about his Nazi status, much less an apology.

But Heidegger's girlfriend was Jewish.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:56 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.

Millions did die because of the aftermath, he helped with some of the research. I still stand true.

What? When? How?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Mathuvan Union
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:57 am

Rusozak wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.


Oh! That reminds me. Oppenheimer.

Werner Von Braun.
used slave labour to construct V2 rockets, and Operation Paperclip and his ethics led to the CIA's tactics being torture.
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
G'day. I have nothing to say. Damn. this rhymes. LOOK AWAY, MORTAL BEINGS!
Calvin and Hobbes is the best comic of all times. Yes, I am Hobbes
Best Song Ever. At The Rainbow in ‘74. Awesome.
Male. Refer to me as ‘he’ or I will bring memes. You do not want my memes.
Behind the free market lies the iron fist of the state - the one thing I learned from The Blaatschapen, excluding how to say sheep in dutch

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The Blaatschapen
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Founded: Antiquity
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:57 am

Rusozak wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.


Oh! That reminds me. Oppenheimer.


I mentioned him in my OP(penheimer) :p

Greed and Death wrote:Christopher Columbus. Yes he was not the first to the New World but he was the one that created sustained contact that led to trade and a doubling of carrying capacity of the world. You do not see that again until the the industrial revolution and even then its not tied to one person. Also while he was an ass to the natives much of what people lay before him is tied to other people or pretty much the norm for late medieval Spain.


Oooh, good choice.
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Dogmeat
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Postby Dogmeat » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:57 am

I dunno, probably Marx or Mohamed.

Honorable mention for the hero who finally shot Hitler.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:58 am

Greed and Death wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:From Philosophy in particular, Nietzsche and Heidegger are probably two of the most controversial philosophers of the past couple of centuries.

Nietzsche has been accused (wrongly) of being a proto-Nazi, enabling the Nazis with his theories (which were wrongly interpreted by the Nazis via the meddling of Nietzsche's sister Elisabeth). Nietzsche's views on women etc are controversial however, no misinterpretation needed.

Heidegger is a different kettle of fish, albeit still involving a Nazi angle. Heidegger was a Nazi. He had a major hand in ousting several of his Jewish colleagues from the University where he worked, including his own mentor Edmund Husserl. Heidegger said nothing post-war about his Nazi status, much less an apology.

But Heidegger's girlfriend was Jewish.

Indeed Arendt was, and that's one of the weird contradictions about Heidegger's life that scholars still discuss today.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Mathuvan Union
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:58 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
Oh! That reminds me. Oppenheimer.


I mentioned him in my OP(penheimer) :p

Greed and Death wrote:Christopher Columbus. Yes he was not the first to the New World but he was the one that created sustained contact that led to trade and a doubling of carrying capacity of the world. You do not see that again until the the industrial revolution and even then its not tied to one person. Also while he was an ass to the natives much of what people lay before him is tied to other people or pretty much the norm for late medieval Spain.


Oooh, good choice.

one day you will get a good joke going. One day.
I don't think columbus is controversial as much as pure evil.
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
G'day. I have nothing to say. Damn. this rhymes. LOOK AWAY, MORTAL BEINGS!
Calvin and Hobbes is the best comic of all times. Yes, I am Hobbes
Best Song Ever. At The Rainbow in ‘74. Awesome.
Male. Refer to me as ‘he’ or I will bring memes. You do not want my memes.
Behind the free market lies the iron fist of the state - the one thing I learned from The Blaatschapen, excluding how to say sheep in dutch

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The Blaatschapen
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:58 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
Oh! That reminds me. Oppenheimer.

Werner Von Braun.
used slave labour to construct V2 rockets, and Operation Paperclip and his ethics led to the CIA's tactics being torture.


And what is the good side of him? :unsure:
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Phaenix
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Founded: Jun 19, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Phaenix » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:58 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Millions did die because of the aftermath, he helped with some of the research. I still stand true.

What? When? How?

Mathuvan's using a bit of hyperbole. Close to 300,000 people died, not millions.
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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:58 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Millions did die because of the aftermath, he helped with some of the research. I still stand true.

What? When? How?

Well Trump's fever came back and he sort of launched the US arsenal at Russia. So shortly is the answer. By the way I am safely in the Southern hemisphere.
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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Werner Von Braun.
used slave labour to construct V2 rockets, and Operation Paperclip and his ethics led to the CIA's tactics being torture.


And what is the good side of him? :unsure:

Something something space exploration.
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Free Las Pinas
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Free Las Pinas » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Autumn Wind wrote:
Einstein didn’t work on the atom bomb. That was Oppenheimer.

And “millions” didn’t die because of the atom bomb.

Millions did die because of the aftermath, he helped with some of the research. I still stand true.

I’m pretty sure the deaths were a quarter million. I’m also not sure how involved he was in the research, I think Oppenheimer’s research was simply based on Einstein’s, specifically about what destruction could come from an atomic weapon.
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Mathuvan Union
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Werner Von Braun.
used slave labour to construct V2 rockets, and Operation Paperclip and his ethics led to the CIA's tactics being torture.


And what is the good side of him? :unsure:

he helped americans land on the moon.
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
G'day. I have nothing to say. Damn. this rhymes. LOOK AWAY, MORTAL BEINGS!
Calvin and Hobbes is the best comic of all times. Yes, I am Hobbes
Best Song Ever. At The Rainbow in ‘74. Awesome.
Male. Refer to me as ‘he’ or I will bring memes. You do not want my memes.
Behind the free market lies the iron fist of the state - the one thing I learned from The Blaatschapen, excluding how to say sheep in dutch

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