Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:49 pm
The Two Jerseys wrote:I wish I had a time machine so that I could go back and prevent this thread from giving me brain cancer.
And then everyone clapped.
Because sometimes even national leaders just want to hang out
https://forum.nationstates.net/
The Two Jerseys wrote:I wish I had a time machine so that I could go back and prevent this thread from giving me brain cancer.
Zordila wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Well quite.. take a read of this - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-platform
Honestly, I didn't think of that. My IQ is probably lower than 100.
Saiyan Galactic Empire wrote:Theberstan wrote:Bigotry and homophobia isn’t what’s tearing the US apart... it’s basic media misinformation and radical political parties. Honestly I wish the US was more then a 2 party system. Make room for other parties for God’s sake. And when I say radical I mean both sides, but far left more then ever. In my opinion politics is like a pendulum. We’re going to swing back the moderate then conservative then probably alt-right.
It's funny because the US is one of the most tolerant nations in the world. If someone is gonna cry about bigotry and racism they should do it in Riyadh or Pakistan not here in the USA where we were one if the first countries to legalize gay marriage and we don't treat immigrants like foreigners.
The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:Wanna toss my hat in the ring, even for a single post.
The OP says that the US does not support "guarantee freedom and equality for all," and that a new nation should be formed that does. I would argue, however, that the US is doing that, as in guaranteeing freedom and equality for all.
The truth of the matter is that guaranteeing freedom and equality for everybody doesn't just mean freedom and equality for minority races or people with good opinions, but also those with bad opinions. Antifa, Neo-Nazis, the KKK, all of them exist in the US because it guarantees the rights and freedoms of its population to express themselves freely and disagree with the opinions of others. Now, I completely acknowledge that these organisations are vile and violent and that the acts of violence and vandalism these organisations commit are illegal, but the simple right for these people to express and espouse these ideas is protected under the Constitution.
Now you might say "These people are terrible, so we should repress them and get rid of them," I agree with the former, but not so much with the latter. See, if a government has the right to repress the rights of a single sect of the population, even if that sect is full of terrible people....what's to stop the government from oppressing the rest of the population? From taking away their rights? From becoming a totalitarian regime? The second that the government is given the legal right to illegalise and actively repress the activities or ideas of a group (no matter how terrible they are), then they have the legal justification to illegalise and repress any people or ideas that they don't like.
And then what happens to those "guaranteed freedoms and equality?" POOF, gone.
The cons of complete guaranteed freedom and equality for all are that it doesn't just guarantee the rights of those who deserve them, but also those of really hateful and terrible people. But it's that or giving the government the ability to repress EVERYONE.
The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:Wanna toss my hat in the ring, even for a single post.
The OP says that the US does not support "guarantee freedom and equality for all," and that a new nation should be formed that does. I would argue, however, that the US is doing that, as in guaranteeing freedom and equality for all.
The truth of the matter is that guaranteeing freedom and equality for everybody doesn't just mean freedom and equality for minority races or people with good opinions, but also those with bad opinions. Antifa, Neo-Nazis, the KKK, all of them exist in the US because it guarantees the rights and freedoms of its population to express themselves freely and disagree with the opinions of others. Now, I completely acknowledge that these organisations are vile and violent and that the acts of violence and vandalism these organisations commit are illegal, but the simple right for these people to express and espouse these ideas is protected under the Constitution.
Now you might say "These people are terrible, so we should repress them and get rid of them," I agree with the former, but not so much with the latter. See, if a government has the right to repress the rights of a single sect of the population, even if that sect is full of terrible people....what's to stop the government from oppressing the rest of the population? From taking away their rights? From becoming a totalitarian regime? The second that the government is given the legal right to illegalise and actively repress the activities or ideas of a group (no matter how terrible they are), then they have the legal justification to illegalise and repress any people or ideas that they don't like.
And then what happens to those "guaranteed freedoms and equality?" POOF, gone.
The cons of complete guaranteed freedom and equality for all are that it doesn't just guarantee the rights of those who deserve them, but also those of really hateful and terrible people. But it's that or giving the government the ability to repress EVERYONE.
Bombadil wrote:Zordila wrote:
And how do we do that, without transparency or good law enforcement?
Well quite.. take a read of this - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-platform
Picairn wrote:I am scrolling the first pages of this thread and the fact that the OP insisted on the US being bad is because the US Constitution has the word "slavery" in it despite not reading the 13th and 14th Amendments is absolutely giving me a hearty laugh.
Kiu Ghesik wrote:Picairn wrote:I am scrolling the first pages of this thread and the fact that the OP insisted on the US being bad is because the US Constitution has the word "slavery" in it despite not reading the 13th and 14th Amendments is absolutely giving me a hearty laugh.
This thread tends to do that. Definitely going to make a note to read it when I'm feeling down in the future.
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Well quite.. take a read of this - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... a-platform
OK but like what? Right now I just entered college taking computer science, and this will fix so much things that I'm starting to consider the possibility of starting one in my own country if I have the apparent chance.
The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.
But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.
I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.
What are your thought?
Bombadil wrote:Resilient Acceleration wrote:OK but like what? Right now I just entered college taking computer science, and this will fix so much things that I'm starting to consider the possibility of starting one in my own country if I have the apparent chance.
Good luck.
Politics is a little like education in that there's so much pushback to any changes it's difficult to get things done, I feel it's remarkable of Taiwan to react to demonstrations in this way and it puts it into stark contrast with HK for me..
However we have tools and technology to radically change how we do politics but the Constitution is so holy to even suggest change is met with outrageous reaction.
Punainen Suomi wrote:I would support the US peacefully dismantling itself into its constituent states. I don't think the world should be dominated by a single superpower.
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Good luck.
Politics is a little like education in that there's so much pushback to any changes it's difficult to get things done, I feel it's remarkable of Taiwan to react to demonstrations in this way and it puts it into stark contrast with HK for me..
However we have tools and technology to radically change how we do politics but the Constitution is so holy to even suggest change is met with outrageous reaction.
I never said I live in the US... Also the last 2019 student protests against the horrific crime bill was very effective, and succeeded in the parliament postponing the bill for a
few years. Yet the movement quickly fell apart after the student leaders were called to TV debates, exposing the cracks between them while public policy experts grilled them to the abyss. Things like this can be used to build a clear public consensus, and unite differing factions to effectively voice for changes.
The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.
But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.
I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.
What are your thought?
US-SSR wrote:The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.
But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.
I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.
What are your thought?
I'd settle for abolishing the Electoral College, expanding the Supreme Court to 13 after 2021, admitting DC and Puerto Rico as States and giving states with more people more Senators.