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Balkanisation of the United States 「Yes or No?」

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Can we save the United States or should we Balkanise it?

Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as centralising power to the central government, and giving more equal representation to all areas
74
28%
Yes, it can be saved- By keeping the status quo
50
19%
Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as giving each state more power
52
20%
No, it cannot be saved - Separate the United States into several countries based on regions
34
13%
No, it cannot be saved- Balkanise the United States into many countries based on states
21
8%
Other Yes (Please describe)
19
7%
Other No (Please describe)
11
4%
 
Total votes : 261

User avatar
Cameroi
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15655
Founded: Dec 24, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cameroi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:15 pm

as with so many things, this depends upon the way in which it is done and what it reverts to.

there are many basic assumptions that seriously need re-examining. including of course, those this proposal itself is based upon.

if it were to be done, return to indiginous authorities would be appropriate.
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Austin Tribe
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Austin Tribe » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:24 pm

I mean, a lot of countries have dark histories, doesn't mean we should abolish it, we should evolve and grow, not start over.

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Ittonia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 10, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ittonia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:32 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.

But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.

I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.

What are your thought?


I think that this consideration of America as "The land of freedom" is exaggerated and an excuse for the US to gain more support/influence.

It is true that the US isn't the best nation at a social level (plus,I think it is a bad place to live in overall),but at this point,why don't we ban Niger? Why don't we ban Uganda ? Why don't we ban Italy etc.?
There are many nations we could ban at this point,as you can see,so I think the Us yes,should try to become a better place (like many others should),but it isn't so bad to deserve to be banned.

P.S. I like this political threads,hope I can see more.
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So now,we honorably sign this post in the name of our nation:The Republic of Ittonia

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Neanderthaland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7117
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:44 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Fuck yeah. Pack it in, we're giving this all back to the Cherokee.

Can we pick a group with an easier language? I suck at tonal structures.
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Bombadil
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Posts: 16098
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:57 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Fuck yeah. Pack it in, we're giving this all back to the Cherokee.

Can we pick a group with an easier language? I suck at tonal structures.


I think you need to create a new language rather than continuing to butcher the English language, have some pride, have your own American language.
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SD_Film Artists
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12333
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:00 am

The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.

But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.

I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.

What are your thought?


Almost every country has a dark history so should they be abolished too? Only Sealand would be left standing. Also it's not going to fix the problem since if BLM is anything to go by you'll just replace the old-timey racism with left-wing woke racism rather than making genuine steps towards equality. Indeed if the USA is plagued by anything it's the habit of turning everything into a race issue rather than just getting along as fellow humans.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14115
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:11 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.

But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.

I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.

What are your thought?


Almost every country has a dark history so should they be abolished too? Only Sealand would be left standing. Also it's not going to fix the problem as if BLM is anything to go by you'll just replace the old-timey racism with left-wing woke racism rather than making genuine steps towards equality.


Sealand was founded by tricking the 'natives' into leaving, then not letting them return.

I suggest the Seychelles. On a small island of Africa, it was founded by Europeans, which sounds bad, except that it was unoccupied at the time. Maybe some pirates were disappointed, but not dispossessed!
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Corestonia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Sep 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Corestonia » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:17 am

Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?

idk, balkanisation probably mainly consisting of native reclamation of the continent

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32567
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:16 am

Could it? Yes. Should it? Probably not, as there doesn't seem to be an argument that is compelling enough to warrant it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Albionist Great Britain
Envoy
 
Posts: 347
Founded: Sep 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Albionist Great Britain » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:23 am

Corestonia wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?

idk, balkanisation probably mainly consisting of native reclamation of the continent


The First Nation populations would need to tax people for the fewer kids they have and to have fertility rates completely un-inline with the developed world in order to gain any significant numbers to even comprehend that, and that definitely would never be enough to ever be a majority with some genocide going on. Disregarding the fact it’ll likely lead to inbreeding or further mixing with other ethnicities to the point the actual ethnicities no longer exist. If not the latter then you’re going to need dictatorships and ethnic cleansing to ‘reclaim’ land, and that’s usually no bueno in the developed world.

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SD_Film Artists
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12333
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:35 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
Almost every country has a dark history so should they be abolished too? Only Sealand would be left standing. Also it's not going to fix the problem as if BLM is anything to go by you'll just replace the old-timey racism with left-wing woke racism rather than making genuine steps towards equality.


I suggest the Seychelles. On a small island of Africa, it was founded by Europeans, which sounds bad, except that it was unoccupied at the time. Maybe some pirates were disappointed, but not dispossessed!


*reads that in Argentinian* How dare you continue to occupy our land! :p
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44052
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:48 am

Friend, come back with proposals to split it into Canada 2.0 and a Socialist Confederacy and I may invest in your plan-scheme.
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Freiheit Reich
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5510
Founded: May 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Freiheit Reich » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:57 am

The Nover Thura wrote:The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.

But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.

I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.

What are your thought?


If you abolish the USA for these reasons, better abolish most countries in the world. Even African countries despite having few whites have a history of racism. For example, Rwanda had a genocide and few whites were involved (I know this would blow many liberals' minds because many liberals think only white people are racist). Slavery existed in Africa before Europeans came. Why don't people talk about forcing African countries to throw away their history. Why not destroy the Pyramids and burn down the Egypt Museum?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

Starting a 'new nation' to get rid of past evils doesn't guarantee success. Red China tried to start a new country that would be a communist paradise where all people are equal and the rich no longer would trample on the poor. Wealthy people were beaten and their land stolen. For a few years, poor communists could feel like kings and have fun watching their former landlords suffer beatings and hard labor. Now, China has a bigger class divide than some evil capitalist nations like the USA!!!
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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 49129
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:58 am

Yes. And replaced with the Unified States of America.
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Fascist PRUESSENS
Attaché
 
Posts: 68
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Fascist PRUESSENS » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:01 am

no
a

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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14115
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:27 am

Albionist Great Britain wrote:
Corestonia wrote:idk, balkanisation probably mainly consisting of native reclamation of the continent


The First Nation populations would need to tax people for the fewer kids they have and to have fertility rates completely un-inline with the developed world in order to gain any significant numbers to even comprehend that, and that definitely would never be enough to ever be a majority with some genocide going on. Disregarding the fact it’ll likely lead to inbreeding or further mixing with other ethnicities to the point the actual ethnicities no longer exist. If not the latter then you’re going to need dictatorships and ethnic cleansing to ‘reclaim’ land, and that’s usually no bueno in the developed world.


How about a treaty, granting Native Americans freehold title of all the land. They can then charge rent (as specified in the treaty) and order residents off any part of it they choose. But they can't re-lease that land at higher rates, nor claim ownership of any buildings, dams etc there. They need to actually live there, at some specified minimum density.

Apart from Native Americans claiming some particularly valuable land because it has a nice view, I can't see it going too far wrong. Claims wouldn't expand much faster than Native American population, and if there are too many US Americans for the space remaining, a century or two from now, let that be a problem for the future.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:29 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Friend, come back with proposals to split it into Canada 2.0 and a Socialist Confederacy and I may invest in your plan-scheme.


New Canada, New New Mexico, and Florida.

We tried offering Florida to Cuba but they didn't want it.
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Forsher
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Posts: 17748
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:35 am

For all its faults, America at least pretends to be a free nation. This is useful for actually free nations.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:39 am

Forsher wrote:For all its faults, America at least pretends to be a free nation. This is useful for actually free nations.


Right. We can act like mini-colonialist ratfuckers, and if unfree nations don't like it, we gesture at the States and say "we're with them".
I report offenses if and only if they are crimes.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Anime Skynet
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Jun 18, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Anime Skynet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:44 am

death to america

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Factoro
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Apr 20, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Factoro » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:44 am

Of course, USA is the rotting corpse of capitalism, racism and religion. Even if noone wants it it will crumble eventually

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Posts: 14115
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:52 am

Anime Skynet wrote:------------


Not funny, and not welcome under current site rules.
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Picairn
Minister
 
Posts: 3274
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:12 am

Factoro wrote:Of course, USA is the rotting corpse of capitalism, racism and religion. Even if noone wants it it will crumble eventually

All empires fall. Eventually China and Russia will too.
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Risottia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Risottia » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:12 am

Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?

British America, Nueva España, Nouvelle France, the Russian Kraj of Alaska, and the Kingdom of Hawai'i.
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Theberstan
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Posts: 214
Founded: Jul 09, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Theberstan » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:31 am

Sepulcrisur wrote:If you ask me, I think the United States should be divided into separate regions. I don’t mean that each state has to be its own independent country, what I’m saying is that each region should contain around 8 - 10 states. However, the United States doesn’t necessarily need to be abolished just because of its racism and dark past. Nevertheless, I support the idea of the United States being divided.

... do you are have stupid...

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